Category Archives: Business

Back of the room sales at corporate events

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Hi Dave – Your recent discussions about corporate comedy and speaking raises a question about back-of-room (BOR) sales. Merchandise sales are common in comedy shows and speaking engagements open to the public. But what about corporate gigs where the company is paying you? Is that something most companies accept, or is it generally frowned upon? At the very least, I would think we should focus very little on our products during the presentation itself (30 seconds max). How do you handle this? Thanks! DG

At the back of the room!

Hey DG – Like just about everything else in the speaking and comedy biz, it depends.

BOR sales of merchandise is so common today that I’m always surprised when the speaker – or comedy headliner AND feature act AND opening act – isn’t camped behind a table full of merch (show-biz slang) and selling everything that isn’t nailed down after the show.

It’s a big source of income. In fact, it’s not even looked at anymore as extra income. In some cases, BOR sales can add up to more money than what the comic or speaker is being paid by the talent booker just to do the gig.

For a big-time, big money example…

A few years ago, I was talking to a comedian friend (who will remain nameless because I’ll drop dollar amounts in this story, but as a hint she is in my book Comedy FAQs And Answers). She was in a panic going from a show in Florida to another in Cleveland because she had completely sold-out all her BOR merch. She needed her agent to send a shipment over-night so her money-making DVDs, CDs, T-Shirts, photos (to autograph for $$’s) and books would be available for fans to purchase after her Cleveland show.

Have I got a deal for you!

If I remember correctly, she was paid about 10 grand for the performance itself. What I do remember correctly is that she told me she made 22 grand selling merchandise after the Florida show!

Yeah, I’d be in a panic too.

Comics and speakers sell all kinds of stuff. Audience members can look at these items as souvenirs of a fun night and also a chance to get an autographed copy of something. And just in case the performer becomes famous the fan can make some money selling it on eBay. But that’s a totally different business proposition…

But you’re definitely correct it’s different when playing a corporate-paid gig. It can be done – and is quite often – but in my opinion, you need permission in advance from the person signing your check.

You don’t ever want to surprise a corporate client or event planner by setting up your mini store at an important training seminar or formal banquet without an agreement made in advance. In fact, I recommend you get the permission in writing and that it’s included in your signed contract. I use a contract rider that includes everything from BOR sales to the exact wording of my introduction and what type of microphone I prefer.

So even if they don’t remember giving you permission for BOR sales and ask you to start putting all your merch back into the trunk of your car, you’ll have proof of the prior agreement.

So how do I handle all this? Thank you for asking. As usual, it depends…

I do two separate corporate programs. One is based on my comedy workshops and communications course I designed for Cleveland State University. It has a 60-page workbook, but it’s not for BOR sales and I don’t pitch it during my program. The client has an option to purchase copies in advance for audience giveaways. If it’s a half or full day training seminar, it’s added into my fee so everyone in attendance will have one because we’ll use it during the program. Either way I’ll know how many are needed and can have them printed up in advance.

So, I won’t even make a 30 second pitch for BOR sales during this particular corporate-paid program. I’ll stay afterwards to talk and trade business cards because as you should already know, it’s all about networking. You never know who’s in the audience that might want to hire you for a future gig.

And when that happens, ask them in advance about BOR sales!

My second program is not for training purposes, but as entertainment. Since this is what comedians do in clubs, pay attention…

This is a pop culture program based on my books The Beatles At Shea Stadium and The Beatles In Cleveland. For this one it’s already in the contract that I do BOR sales. Like I mentioned above – and how most comedians and other entertainers should look at it – I consider this as part of my payment for doing the gig. It also helps in negotiating since BOR sales will allow me to come in for a lower fee than a no BOR sales training seminar. Book sales make up the difference.

Then again, that’s what I do and I’m only spelling it out because you asked. I’m in no-way a know-it-all about this and I’m sure there are working comics and speakers reading who will have more thoughts and personal experiences about this topic.

Care to share? We’d love to hear from you.

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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For comments, questions about workshops and coaching please email – Dave@TheComedyBook.com

Record for your own protection

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Hi Dave – I was talking with another comic about a court case from a few years ago. A customer in a comedy club sued the comic over his (adult) language. She claimed to be stressed and shocked and won the case. We record every set mainly so we can hear which jokes work and how well. Now it’s important to document what was actually said. This was a case of a comic being accused of using inappropriate language in a mandatory “clean” show. – BM

Disorder in the court!

Hey BM – I remember that case and wrote about it in a FAQs article when the verdict came down. A lot of people in the comedy biz were shocked over what happened. To borrow a phrase from an influential club booker who seems to repeat it every time we talk, comedy clubs are “The Last Bastion of Free Speech.” In other words, he feels as long as the comedian is funny it’s okay to have an opinion to say what he or she wants on stage and not worry about being politically correct.

But it’s not that simple.

It didn’t take a court case for most working comics to understand there are limits on language and topics depending on the venue, audience and event. For example, what you can expect to hear during a late night show in a comedy club vs. a corporate event will be different.

As you mentioned, it’s important to record all your sets. This is a great way to help you improve as a writer and performer. If your performance is funny the audience will laugh. If it sucks, you’ll hear crickets from the segments of the room where your family and friends are not sitting. You can develop your act off the response.

Proof is on the recording

As you also mentioned, recording your set is a way to “document” what is said on stage. Based on the result of the court case, having proof of what you said can be just as important.

Some performers may not realize this, but did you know that some club owners or managers record the shows? It’s nothing new. Many clubs have a permanent camera installed and aimed toward the stage. Before that in “ancient times” (pre video cameras) quite a few had an audio recorder going.

I know. I’ve been around since the “ancient times” and saw this happening.

I’ve also seen this documentation (proof) used to show performers that what they advertised (promised) was not what they delivered. And in some cases, it justified the talent booker not paying the performer.

Example…

A few years ago I received a call from a booker to warn me about a certain comedian who was promoting himself as a clean (G-rated) act. He had scheduled the comic for a corporate show and was called-out by the client because the comic not only talked graphically about sex, but also dropped the F-bomb in the process.

Of course the comic protested. He said his material was not that dirty.

So the talent booker told him to prove it. Send the audio or video. The comic couldn’t because he didn’t record. So it came down to the client’s word vs. the comic’s word.

Can you guess who won?

Yeah, the angry and offended client with big corporate $$’s to spend on his next event.

The booker still hoped some of that money would be spent on one of his performers, so case closed. The client demanded and received a refund, so neither the talent booker or the comic was paid. And since the talent booker wasn’t used to getting yelled at by clients because the performers he works with are expected to understand the event and “know the audience,” he called other talent bookers to warn them of the potential nightmare that comes from working with that particular comic.

That’s how I heard about it.

So now getting back to the article you mentioned, I’m guessing the judge made a ruling based on whose lawyer sounded most convincing. I don’t remember reading about the comedian recording his set. If he had, it might (or might not) have saved him time, trouble, money and future work. It’s important for creative artists to have freedom of expression, but I’ll also add this from a business side of the creative entertainment business:

There are certain limits.

What do I mean by that stipulation?

A comedy club normally is for people ages 21 and over. If someone fits that demographic but is easily offended, then they need to follow the rule of “buyer beware.” If the show is announced for “mature audiences only” you can bet the comic on stage will practice his or her right of free speech at some point or another. If someone doesn’t like it – they should leave.

It’s similar to watching television. If I don’t like a show I’ll change the channel. But I won’t impose my beliefs on someone else who might enjoy it. As an example I’ll use all the violent murder and detective shows that I have no desire to watch. But they pull in high ratings, so who am I to prevent others from tuning in? Instead, I’ll just change the channel to The Voice or a rerun of Seinfeld. Those are the types of shows I enjoy watching.

But performers also need to be aware of the event and audience.

As mentioned above, a late night comedy club show will be different than a corporate event. Comedy clubs are where comedians can practice free speech, while corporate comics need to be funny using G-rated material.

To prove (document) my point, here’s an experience with someone that “did not know his audience” that I still find unforgettable and unforgivable…

Many years ago I took our then 5 year-old son to a very well known amusement park. It wasn’t Disney because they have standards about this stuff. But as we walked around all these rides and games meant for little kids, I saw a guy wearing a white t-shirt with the F-Bomb spelled out in all it’s four-letter glory in BIG bold black lettering as in “F(bomb) YOU!”

Sorry “Mr. Living-On-The-Edge”, but that was not the time or place for your political incorrectness. Performers who work in the comedy and speaking biz will understand. It’s called “knowing your audience “and the audience this idiot had was a bunch of 5-year-old kids with their parents.

This goes both ways.

Performers must know your audience. Audiences must realize where they are. If it’s a corporate show it’ll be clean. If it’s a comedy club, chances are something will be said that’s not appropriate for 5 year old kids or anyone easily offended.

Next online workshop starts Monday – November 25, 2024

Visit website for details and to register

When you cross the line, that’s when the trouble – and bad-mouthing phone calls – can start. Your best defense is to always record your set and be sure it backs up what you’ve been hired to do.

Oh, and by the way – I reported the idiot wearing the “F-Bomb” t-shirt to administrators at the amusement park. I don’t know if they told him to change or to leave, but I hope they at least made part of his day a hassle. LOL!!!

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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Finding corporate gigs and dealing with gatekeepers

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Dave – I’ve taken your comedy workshop, and it was a wonderful experience. Okay, now that I’ve saved you the time of promoting it, I did have a question. You recently wrote about using humor to gain corporate gigs. How does one go about finding these speaking opportunities? Who do you contact – event planners, Human Resources or some other person at the corporate office? What is a gatekeeper and how should one approach that gatekeeper? – B.T.

No one gets past me!

Hey B.T. – Come on… You know me. Just because you plugged my workshop (thank you btw) doesn’t mean I’m not going to plug it again. It’s called promoting, which is what you also need to do if you want to book corporate gigs.

That’s true whether you’re a comedian, humorous speaker, or any type of presenter or entertainer. No one will hire you unless they know you’re out there and available for work.

The article you’re referring to was about using humor during your program at corporate events. It was posted in two parts in case anyone wants to scroll down for a reminder. But your question has given it a different spin:

How would you use humor to find and schedule corporate gigs? Here’s my take on it…

I go through phases but guess I could admit to being a big cold caller. It sounds miserable (think telemarketer) and was at first. I dreaded those work-related calls. But after much practice and bad experiences, I came up with an idea to make these calls semi-humorous. After all, in my corporate programs I talk about comedy, humor, laughter – and it was time to start using them.

You really want to get past me?

In the corporate market you really can’t be a one-liner, class clown or jokester when first contacting a gatekeeper (we’ll get to that term in a moment) by phone. You’ll either get the Rodney Dangerfield treatment (no respect) or be treated to an endless symphony of Elevator Muzak (for a sample, check out this LINK) when they put your call on hold and go out for lunch.

It’s a business call and you need to treat it that way. BUT it’s important to have an opening line that grabs interest. It’s like writing the beginning of a comedy bit or speaker’s presentation. You want to grab your listener’s attention as soon as possible. And since you also work in the humor industry, there’s no reason why you can’t use a fun(ny) opening line as a conversation starter.

Here’s an example that I’ve used, and it’s worked – no BS:

“Hello, this is (your name) and I’m calling from “beautiful” or “hot and humid” or “snowy and cold” (name the city closest to you that you know they’ve heard of).”

THEN WAIT.

More times than not, the person answering the phone will have a comment about the city. They’ve been there; have relatives or friends living there; know something about it (good or bad – doesn’t matter); or will have at least heard of it.

BINGO!!! Conversation starter.

Let them talk and all you have to do is work off of what they’ve just given you. Get it?

To continue this random example, they might go with the “weather option” you gave in your opening line or want to talk about the city’s sports teams (I get that one a lot). Then once we have (hopefully) a friendly and/or funny conversation going I ease into my sales pitch.

“I have a program that would be great for your company’s next event. Let me tell you about it…”

And here’s another secret. If my opener is greeted by silence or a negative reaction, I don’t waste a lot of time on the call. Since I deal with humor, this is obviously not a good fit for what I do. I’ll move onto the next one.

How do you find speaking opportunities?

Cold calling is just one way – and usually everyone’s least favorite. The best is always in person networking. I talk about this in much more detail in my book How To Be A Working Corporate Comedian, but in a nutshell, every community has business organizations looking for presenters. Play detective and find the person that schedules these meetings and volunteer to speak for FREE.

This is a major source for contacts. Not only can you showcase in front of potential clients, but they’ll also usually feed you for FREE. Then you do a meet and greet as they leave the program and liberally hand out your business cards while trying to collect as many as you can. Some audience members might have an event coming up and would be interested in hiring you based on your FREE showcase presentation.

I’ve booked quite a few paying gigs this way and gained a few pounds at the same time.

As far as who you should contact…

You’ll need to play detective again to find out that info for individual corporate events. I’ve learned firsthand it can be just about anyone from an assistant to the head honcho of the company. Go online and learn what you can about the company before calling. You can also ask the gatekeeper…

Who??

The gatekeeper is the person that answers the phone during your cold calls and considers it to be his or her personal mission to keep you from talking to the decision maker. And in case you need a refresher, the decision maker is the person that can hire you. You need to convince the gatekeeper that you and (especially) your comedy act or speaking presentation is worthy of personal contact with the decision maker.

Sometimes the above-mentioned creative (humorous) example can be the needed cold call icebreaker. Other times it turns into a longer process. This would involve sending information and promotional videos showing what you can offer to make their event successful – and hope the decision maker sees it. Then you need to follow-up without being a pain in the you-know-what.

How do you do that? It’s in my book How To Be A Working Corporate Comedian (another plug!) and involves a timely use of phone calls, emails and postcards. There are no guarantees, but gatekeepers, event planners, human resources, assistants and head honchos will never know you’re even out there and available unless you present yourself.

It’s called promoting. And in my opinion, an element of humor can help you stand out from the competition.

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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For comments, questions about workshops and coaching please email – Dave@TheComedyBook.com

New material for a comedy contest?

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Hey Dave – I won a spot in the amateur contest finale show next week. My question to you is this: I used my same set that you saw and it “rocked”. Should I go back there with that exact same set or a completely new one untested? Can I put in a few new bits and keep the rest the same? Thanks for your time – N.D.

Hey N.D. – That’s great news – congrats! Good things can happen when you “rock” on stage.

To answer your question, I’ll need to rely on what I’ve been told by too many comedians and behind the scenes people over the years. I’ve been involved with many auditions, which are different than contests. At an audition the comedians would do anywhere from five to seven minutes to be considered for a booking. When I was in Los Angeles it was three to five minutes when auditioning for most of the television shows, including The Tonight Show and on down the list.

And in case you’re wondering, auditions for America’s Got Talent are 90 seconds. You don’t need a lot of time to make an impression in this crazy biz.

We didn’t see the same material twice because there were no preliminaries and finals like in a comedy contest. The comic either got the gig or didn’t. If one of the talent bookers wanted to see the comic again it meant he/she was interested, but also wanted to see different material.

In comedy contests you have to know “what got you there” and what will keep you around until the end. In my book Comedy FAQs And Answers, I asked the same question to an important Hollywood television producer (you’ll have to read the book to find out). His answer?

“Always go with your A-Game.”

Pick a winner!

In other words, never do an audition, showcase or (important) contest with untested material. Otherwise just consider it “stage time” (practice) and use it as that. Use it to work on material, delivery, timing, stage fright or whatever you need to improve to get better.

But since you’re excited by going this far in the contest you should follow the above advice. Go with your A-Game and don’t do the untested set.

Since this is during a live show and not a repeat performance in front of a small panel of judges you’re going to have a different audience. So don’t worry about people having heard your material earlier. And as for the club staff, the hard workers behind the scenes are there every night and know many comedians do essentially the same act every show.

But now we’ll throw a little variation into the mix…

Comedians – good comedians anyway – are creative artists. I’ve said that many times before because it’s true. They are constantly writing and constantly anxious to try out new material to see how an audience will react. Many of my favorites that I’ve seen dozens of times over the years always have something new to say. But they also know “what got them there” as far as paid bookings and fans. They already know through experience what material is proven to work, whether it’s a great opening, closing or a solid punch to the funny bone in the middle of their set, and they’ll deliver it.

When a comedian does a Netflix special or competes on America’s Got Talent, you can bet the material has been tried out more than a few times before the show is filmed. The stakes are too high and no one including the comedian, management, producer, network and beyond can afford a “bomb.” It wouldn’t help anyone’s career.

But let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves…

You are going up in an amateur contest next week, which isn’t in front of Netflix or AGT producers, but it can also be an important step in your career. If your creativity is telling you to try something new, it’s probably a good idea to try it out somewhere else first. Do some open mics and get a feel for the delivery and audience response. It’s what you did anyway in putting together the material that “got you there” and the process shouldn’t stop now.

When it comes to the contest performance, do the material that really works best. If it’s the same set you did it at the earlier show, the new audience won’t know. And unless the contest judges requested something new – and obviously they didn’t or we wouldn’t be having this discussion – they should make their decisions based on audience response. Of course it doesn’t always happen that way, but your main goal should be entertaining the audience. If you get a great response and don’t get crowned the winner, it’s not the end of the world – or your career.

You still win. You’ve had more stage time, which is an opportunity to get better. And as far as I know and from what I’ve been told, that’s what’s important to a creative artist.

Remember what got you there – a set that rocked. You want to rock again and that could be a crapshoot for a newer comedian with untested material. In these situations give them your best – your A-Game. But keep writing and looking for more opportunities to get on stage because in the long run, that’s how you’ll put together the material “that got you there” when Netflix or Simon Cowell finally give you a call.

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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Breaking Into the College Market

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Hi, Dave – I hope things are going well. I have a friend teaches a class at a nearby university. He put me in contact with the director of the department and we set up a date for me to do a 45–60-minute comedy show. I asked if the school had a budget for this type of entertainment. She emailed a reply that their events are “a bit below market value” and asked me to share “ballpark numbers” with her. She added “sincere gratitude for my time and travel and what amount might be meaningful” for me.

I know I probably should’ve looked for an agent before getting a gig like this, but I’ll take this opportunity in any way I can. I just don’t exactly know what the ballpark is, I don’t want to go too high or low, I was wondering if you can point me in the right direction. This is exciting and somewhat surreal that this is finally happening. Thanks – R.

Varsity Sport

Hey R. – Good to hear from you. Things are going well (thank you) and it also sounds like things are going well for you.

The college market for performers can be very lucrative. Student Activities Departments receive funding from enrollment tuitions that needs to be spent while the students paying it are still in school. Think about that. If part of your money is going toward entertainment, but they don’t provide the entertainment while you’re there, you’re not going to be very happy about it.

So, they spend because they need to.

Now, that’s not saying colleges and universities have unlimited budgets, but in my experiences as a college agent (for almost eight years) they have more to spend than an average comedy club.

But it’s not an easy market to break into. Your comedy material needs to be relatable to college-aged students. For example, unless the comic is a celebrity, the audience is not going to be very interested in someone’s “mom or dad” telling jokes that doesn’t fit their interests.

A good example of this was given to me during an interview with Bill Engvall for my book, Comedy FAQs And Answers: How The Stand-Up Biz Really Works. We were actually talking about how to protect your material – he has a trademark on his brilliant hook, “Here’s your sign” (it’s in the book). I happened to mention he must be popular on the college circuit because that’s such a funny bit. But he disagreed. He said his comedy is mostly about family, being married, having kids and being an adult. Students – much younger than both of us – had no interest in that. They couldn’t relate, so he stayed away from doing colleges.

Okay, that makes sense.

So, many (newer) comedians looking to break into the college market might assume they need topics the students can really relate to. Probably sleeping through classes, getting drunk, getting high, having sex, and all the really fun reasons for anyone to go to college.

Okay, that also makes sense – but not how you will get bookings.

Says it all…

Student Activities boards make the decisions about entertainment on campuses. Many of the comedy shows happen during special events – such as Parent’s Weekend, Little Sibs Weekends, Homecoming, Alumni Weekends and… well, you get the idea. The decision makers do not want parents (who might be paying the tuition) and others to think all their student do is party, sleep and repeat. So, they are very selective about the material comedians perform during their shows.

Okay, that’s just a general overview. If you think you have an act that will work in the college market, let’s move on to today’s question. Let’s say you’ve used a connection to book your first college gig. But word of warning: the answer will be practical and vague at the same time.

First of all, it could be the beginning of something good. If you’ve scored your first college gig, don’t worry about having an agent do the deal for you. Not yet and not under these circumstances. You made the connection and can play it through yourself without having to share a percentage.

Second of all – a good (reliable) college agent would be tough for you to find right now – simply because you haven’t had experience doing college gigs yet.

It’s a problem a lot of comedians working in the college market have had to deal with at the beginning of their careers. I’ve heard about it often. Comedians have told me they can’t get “good” (well paying) college gigs without an agent. However, they can’t get an agent without having experience doing college gigs.

It’s what they call “Catch-22” (look it up if you need to).

You’re already on a good path by scoring this college gig on your own. What you really want out of this most – more than big bucks – is the resume credit, a recommendation from student activities or someone at the college associated with the gig. Just a simple “great job”, “love working with you”, “very professional”, “students loved the show” – whatever you can get that is positive.

This can be obtained by sending a “thank you” email after the gig – and asking for any feedback. You would use their positive statement or review as promotion to book more college shows. Positive college reviews are also a good way to get college agents interested in working with you.

Most important – you will need a video of your set filmed in front of a college audience. Sometimes the schools will do this for you. They might have a film department that will look at this as a project. As a college agent, I’ve arranged that for some of the acts I represented. It never hurts to ask.

But if that doesn’t happen, then do it yourself. This is a good opportunity to show college agents and other schools how you perform for students. You might need to bring a friend to help with this. Have a camera or phone aimed at you on stage – and another filming the audience. Now, I know some schools will not allow you to film students, but even set up in the back of the room or off to the side will allow you to film their reactions without showing their faces. Why is this important? I’ll tell you from experience…

Potential talent bookers and agents like to see you and your audience’s reaction. Watch some of the television comedy specials – or even older ones like A&E’s An Evening at the Improv.” Comics will do a bit and then there’s a quick cut to the audience laughing. It’s how the “professionals” do it and shows the viewer how much the audience enjoys your show.

I’ve coached comics in the past to do a free show on campus – just to have that video for potential college agents. But if you already have a gig on campus, you’re past that “free” show stage. Just make sure you get a good video. It should pay off in the future.

Okay, now for the “vague” part…

As mentioned earlier, colleges and universities have money to spend on entertainment through Student Activities. In my past experiences they pay a lot more than regular gigs in comedy clubs (with a note that headliners are different). But until you reach that status as a performer and have no college performing experience, the main goal is to get the resume credit and video.

When I was just breaking into the college market as an agent, I thought it would be a brilliant business technique to go for less money than what other (more established) agents were asking when booking newer comedians. But it didn’t work out as planned. My other agent-friends told me the students activities representatives would think my clients weren’t as good (funny) because they were cheaper. The idea was that a higher price meant they would give a better show.

Really…?

Okay – so I went with that idea. I learned that most of the newer comedians were asking for – and getting – $1,000 for an hour show. There was also a lot of negotiating and block bookings to give schools better deals and in the process, the comedians more money – but that’s also in the book Comedy FAQs and Answers. Yeah, I know… cheap plug.

But remember at this stage of your beginning college market career, it’s more important to get the credit, a recommendation, and a video.

Since today’s question asked about the “going rate” for a college performance, you might need to do a little research. If you know from being part of your “comedy scene” anyone that does college shows, ask for their advice. Otherwise, pick a figure that works for you. It could be $500 or $100 for a 45-60-minute show. Mention to the booker that’s what “your friend” suggested and then throw the ball back onto their court. Ask if that fits into their budget.

Then wait for an answer. See what they offer.

In my opinion – and only if this is local and doesn’t involve hours or days traveling – I would take it. BUT AGAIN, I say this only for newer comedians looking to break into the college market. The most valuable payment is leaving with a college performance credit, a recommendation, and a good video that can help you work with a college agency or to book other college gigs on your own.

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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For comments, questions about workshops and coaching please email – Dave@TheComedyBook.com

Use humor to get corporate gigs Part 2

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“I just completed a comedy workshop and also, I’m reading your book How To Be A Working Comic. I would also like to learn about humorous presentations and keynote opportunities.” – Sincerely, EM

Info-tainment

Okay, if you’re following along that’s the same question from our last newsletter. You’ll also remember the answer was getting a bit long and the executive decision (mine) was made to break it up into two parts. If you’d like to check out Part 1 just scroll down, check out the last newsletter – or subscribe so you don’t miss any of this good stuff.

To continue from where we left off…

Now, before you shake your head and think I’m nuts because there’s “no way” you could ever relate to corporate event themes, here’s a news update:

Chances are you can.

I say that because I’ve worked with and watched dozens of talented local and national comedians turn themselves into corporate comedians or humorists by taking their comedy material and focusing it on the audience and the event.

They’ve done this through simple research. Usually by emailing a short survey to the event planner or a phone interview with the client. They find out the “theme” for the event, the company’s product and the focus of the conference training seminars. Then they can take this information and see how his/her existing comedy material relates.

Stop shaking your head because I’m not done yet. For example…

If you have a family, you’re probably an “expert” on communications, team building and customer service. Yeah, it may sound ridiculous because it might only be about communicating with your parents, spouse, kids or other relatives. But since these are important topics within the “business world” and focused on during the conference, your performance would be “entertainment” that is based on the “theme.”

The topics are the same.

Keep them entertained!

You’re just relating to them in a different way as a humorist. Put focus on the conference theme (ex: the importance of communicating) and how you deal with it on a personal level (ex: “I don’t understand how my family communicates”) and it becomes info-tainment.

Are you still shaking your head? I’ll continue…

A couple years ago I did a breakout session at a medical conference. And here’s a confession (and to quote a favorite comedian, Dom Irrera) – “I’m no doctor…”, but one of the conference topics was stress relief. I’m a comedy coach and talk about humor. One of the benefits of humor is relieving stress. I was the only person in the room without a medical degree, white coat and stethoscope – and probably the only one that got paid for that particular hour. I made sure my topic – finding humor in stressful situations – related to their event.

My topic, or expertise, was a good example of what the doctors were talking about in their training seminars (info) and we had more than a few laughs (entertainment).

The event planner may have hired a big-time keynote speaker or high-priced entertainer for a highlight event during the conference, but to make it a highlight they would probably need big-time doctor credentials (keynote) or television credits (entertainer). If you can compete for those gigs, then go for it. Otherwise, start thinking about how your comedy expertise can get you booked for one of the many other (paying) speaker opportunities.

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A stand-up comedian who doesn’t customize his material for the event can still get hired as the entertainment. A humorous speaker can be hired for keynotes, training seminars, break out sessions – and as the entertainment.

What this means is that you don’t need to work laughs into a strict business training program about… well, corporate stuff such as taxes, law, productivity, networking, increasing sales and all that. If you have experience in those fields and can speak as a “trainer” with humor, you should be in demand. But even if you don’t, you might have comedy material that is relatable to those topics. So, find a creative way to relate what you already talk about to the audience and the event.

This is another way of saying know your audience.

The topic of the conference could be anything from business techniques such as learning power point or relieving office stress, to more personal topics like juggling a family and a career, to improving your golf game.

Were you ever a parent, child, golfer, lawyer, teacher, minister, truck driver, bartender or anything other than a comedian? Then you have a business or personal topic you can share. Talk about your business or personal experiences (I’ll bet you already do in your act) while making it funny and entertaining, and you’ll be considered a humorous speaker.

For example…

I’m sure a comedian with teaching experience would have some very funny stories and advice to share if team building was a corporate breakout session topic. So would soccer moms and dads, military vets, sports fans, frat boys, factory workers, gang members – and anyone else that has ever been part of a team.

This also works if you have a particular message.

Have you or anyone close to you survived a disease, injury or other tragedy? I hate to list those suggestions as moneymakers, but I’ve seen many comedians on the corporate and college circuits turning negatives into positives as humorous motivational speakers. If your story can help someone else – then it’s worthy of telling. And if you can make it entertaining, your audience will tend to listen and “get” your message. The same idea holds true for insights on bullying, alcohol awareness and other important topics. Do you have experience in these fields? Talk, share, motivate, teach, train and entertain as a comedian.

That’s what sells in the corporate market.

The idea is not to be limited to only going for the corporate entertainment gigs that seem to peak during holidays and slow down the rest of the year. If your material and performance is relatable to the event and funny, you’ll find more opportunities for work.

I’ll talk more about this topic in the coming weeks because I have a lot to share. But here’s another big chunk of advice that I’ve shared numerous times in earlier newsletters.

Keep it clean!

For corporate shows, we’re talking G and PG (at the max) rated. Don’t even try to test that warning in an attempt to prove me wrong. You won’t – and you also won’t work corporate gigs where you can make more money in an hour than you can during an entire weekend at a comedy club.

And if you remember how we started in Part 1 of this discussion, that’s a correct answer to a big-money topic. And now for my brilliant callback…

I guess I should’ve been a game show host.

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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Use humor to get corporate gigs Part 1

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Mr. Schwensen – I just completed a comedy workshop and also, I’m reading your book How To Be A Working Comic. I would also like to learn about humorous presentations and keynote opportunities. – Sincerely, EM

Hey EM – First of all, I write these newsletters for a bunch of funny comedians and humorous speakers. We’re not exactly standing up on the top tier of formality in our biz, so “Mr. Schwensen” and “Sincerely” will have to go. Our favorite terms of endearment are…

Well, since I’ve promised to keep this newsletter rated G and PG for our younger readers (and the parents that screen them) I won’t make a list. But next time, “Hey Dave” will work just fine.

Second, thanks for the book plug. Saves me from having to do it myself this week… ha!

“Humorous presentations and keynote opportunities.”

We have a winner!

If I was a game show host we’d be celebrating right now because you just hit on a big-money topic. It also happens to be one that I don’t think enough comedians are taking advantage of:

Humorous speaking gigs.

Of course, there are comedy and speaking gigs available in the club, college and cruise ship markets, but when you mention presentations and keynotes, my mind races to the corporate market (includes businesses, associations and social organizations) where there are a lot of opportunities for speakers that are humorous.

Corporate events will hire entertainers, such as comedians, musicians and variety acts for special occasions, holiday parties, retirement banquets and in general, when they need entertainment. Usually, that will be one big blow-out show as the entertainment highlight of the conference. The entertainer who scores that spot could be in line for a big payday. But you know what? At many conferences there are keynotes (breakfast, lunch and dinner), training seminars and breakout sessions throughout the day – for as many days as the conference runs.

That’s a lot of spots to fill – with speakers.

Go for the laughs!

At corporate functions there are more opportunities for presenters who can inform as well as entertain. And when that info-tainment requirement includes laughter, event planners seem to be more open to hire humorous speakers.

Speaker’s bureaus (which operate like entertainment agencies) list more humorous speakers on their rosters than entertainers. Why? Because they get more work in the corporate market and that’s how the bureaus stay in business. And if you look into it (Google a few) you’ll find the humorous speakers have at least a few general topics that could fit into various events.

They’re still doing comedy, but it relates to the audience and theme of the event.

Most conference training seminars and keynotes consist of the “hands-on” experienced information that attendees need for professional development. That’s the reason to have a conference.

For example:

If it’s a conference on law enforcement, the training seminars might teach the best way to bust crooks. If it’s about being a grocery store clerk, they’ll learn new techniques in bagging groceries. Since the majority of entertainers won’t have experience in either profession their best chance to book the gig at either conference is if entertainment is needed.

With budget cuts, time restrictions and other factors dictating how business conferences are planned, hiring someone purely for entertainment purposes is usually the first casualty. Sure, CEO’s and event planners want their events to be fun and memorable for the employees and associates, but they also need to serve a purpose.

Usually, it involves training and how to do their business better.

So, a big chunk of the budget will be used to bring in the trainers and speakers who do just that. And instead of hiring a high-priced comedian to perform an after-dinner show as the highlight entertainer, they might bring in a karaoke machine or local deejay.

Believe me, not only are comics frustrated by that – so are their agents.

But good event planners also know it’s important for conference attendees to have a positive experience. You know what they say about all work and no play… So, entertainment can still be a factor, especially if it relates to the event.

For example:

Even if a comedian or speaker doesn’t have experience or training in a certain profession they can still be booked for a presentation if they have topics pertaining to these services. If we stick with law enforcement and grocery bagging, it’s a good bet there will be training seminars on communications, customer service and team building. Do you have any comedy material or experiences that might even come close to any of those topics?

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————————————————————————————————

Then your goal is to customize it for the event.

Now, before you shake your head and think I’m nuts because there’s “no way” you can relate to corporate event themes, chances are you can. I say that because I’ve worked with and watched dozens of talented local and national comedians turn themselves into “corporate humorists” by taking their comedy material and focusing it on their audience and the event.

But you know what? This is turning into one of my longer ramblings, so it might be a good idea to take a break. We’ll “focus” on that topic next time in Part 2. Until then – keep laughing!

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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Corporate Events, Colleges and Cruise Ships

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Hey Dave – Is there a way to make a living as a comic without playing the comedy clubs? I know the only other major venues are colleges and cruise ships and corporate events. – KH

Hey KH – You pretty much ran all the comedy bases in that one. From first to home with one swing:

  • Comedy Clubs
  • Colleges & Universities
  • Cruise Ships
  • Corporate Events

I’m sure readers can suggest few more options that I haven’t included in that trip around the bases, such as private parties and various social and special events. I could mention being an MC at a fashion show or talent contest or doing comedy for an “after the high school prom event,” since I’ve personally scheduled comedians for these teenage laugh-fests in the past.

But those types of shows are not regular gigs and I doubt they would add up enough money to help make a living as a comic.

Since you’re talking about bypassing comedy clubs that knocks out the first market, which is working in comedy clubs. So, we’ll pretend that one was never mentioned and move down your list…

Colleges & Universities:

The college market pays good money. That’s no secret in this business. Colleges have Student Activities (or Campus Activities) departments that are funded by student tuition. That means if they don’t spend the money during the year that particular student is in school, whoever is paying the tuition would have a right to be mad. They paid into the department, but didn’t get to reap the benefits?

Nope, that’s not going to happen. So, the activities boards spend their student-funded money every year on a wide range of activities. For instance, entertainment.

But just like the other upcoming options, the college market is more specialized than what is normally expected in comedy clubs. From my experience as a talent agent in NACA (National Association for Campus Activities) you would have to follow one of the most important rules of performing – and therefore, comedy:

Know your audience.

Your audience will obviously be college students. We’re talking mainly between the ages of 18 to 22. Does your material work for that age range? Also (and be honest) are you still at an age the students can relate to? Here’s what I mean…

When I was writing the book Comedy FAQs And Answers, I interviewed comedian Bill Engvall about copyrighting material (you’ll have to read the book to find out what he says). It was a great topic for him because his hook – “Here’s your sign!” – is legally protected. It belongs to him, and you can’t use it – period. In fact, I think I might need to send him a royalty check just for typing it out here.

I asked him about working the college market and he told me he doesn’t. The reason? He talks about his wife and kids, being a husband, a father, and other family stuff. College kids aren’t interested in those topics. They’re more into sleeping late, skipping classes and… well, think back to what you wanted to do when you were 18 years old and that’s what the audience wants to hear.

Know your audience.

But to get back to your question, yes you can actually bypass comedy clubs by working colleges. Some of the most popular comedians on the college circuit are not really “club comics.” But you’ll need a college act (remember the audience) and on-stage experience putting it together. As usual, you’ll get that through open-mics and doing smaller (usually for free) shows. There’s also the opportunity by performing free gigs at local colleges – especially since they normally save their student activities budgets for already working college performers.

Once you have an act that fits the college market, I suggest working with a college booking agent. Doing this on your own is not cheap because most college work comes from showcasing at college booking conferences. Again, this is described in more detail in the above-mentioned Comedy FAQs And Answers book, but the agencies invest a lot of money in membership fees, conference expenses and promotional material.

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Agencies can better afford to do this because they offer a wide variety of entertainment that can fit what different colleges are looking for. This means the agencies have more opportunities to make money than a solo act going alone. Colleges don’t just book comedians, but also bands, variety acts, speakers, dance troupes, mimes, acrobats, and even inflatables that the students can jump on, slide down and bash into (remember the age of the audience we’re talking about).

The associations that run these conferences are:

  • NACA (already mentioned)
  • APCA (Association for the Promotion of Campus Activities)

Hook up with a college talent agency that is a member of one or both, have a GREAT college act (know your audience) and there’s a chance you can bypass comedy clubs until the number of candles on your birthday cake is a legitimate fire hazard that would scare off students.

Cruise Ships:

Most comedians I’ve talked with about working cruise ships say it’s the hardest market to break into. Depending on your status within the comedy industry it can be very lucrative or just another gig that happens to be on a ship. Let me explain…

Name headliners (celebrities and almost-celebrities) can work a cruise gig and get all the frills. They may not be paid anywhere near what they would get for a big college or corporate show, but the perks would include an upper deck stateroom and a regular seat at the captain’s dinner table. I know a (very) few that do this annually and consider it more of a vacation than work and bring their families along for the fun.

But I seem to know more comedians that work as a cruise ship contract-player. In other words, they sign on for a certain length of time, say three to six months, and share accommodations with other entertainers and staff in the lower quarters of the ship. There are no portholes to look out and meals are buffet food with other employees in the area off-limits to passengers, which again is in the lower decks of the ship.

The pay isn’t big time, but then again you don’t have to pay for anything. You live on the ship and watch your bank account grow.

Cruise ship comedians also have to be skilled at doing two completely different performances.

Usually in the early evening they’ll perform two shows. One is pre-dinner for half the passengers (while the rest are eating), followed by a post-dinner show for the other half (while the first audience is eating). These are CLEAN performances (G or PG-Rated) in the ship’s large theater for family audiences, meaning young children to grandparents.

Then the same comedians will do a later “dirty” show (R to X-Rated) in one of the lounges for the adults.

Know your audience.

I’ve worked with comedians that don’t even have houses or apartments anymore. They live on cruise ships and continue to sign months-long contracts. When they do take a month or so off, they’ve saved money and can live it up on a grand scale for a while, before signing on again when the money gets tight.

It could be fun, unless you have a family (that can’t go when you’re a contract entertainer) or want to be available for television and movie auditions on dry land. But it’s bypassing the comedy club option.

Corporate Events:

I think most corporate entertainers will agree this is the BIGGEST paying opportunity for comedians. I’ve even dedicated an entire book, How To Be A Working Corporate Comedian, on how to break into the corporate market. So, in other words, I have a lot to say about the topic. And like the others, it’s not easy (if it was, everyone would do it), but it also starts with the same rule:

Know your audience.

I’m not going to elaborate too here much, because I’ve already written a lot about the corporate market in these articles, my books and the online course. But to make a point, I’m going to re-use one of the best reader comments I’ve received on this topic. It comes from my online comedy pal Frank King at CleanCorporateComic.com (and yeah Frank, this is a test to see if you’re still reading in 2024 – ha!) who sent in this great Q&A for a long-ago, past article…

*

What’s the difference between the average club comic and the average corporate comic? Answer: $3,000 a day + expenses.

*

Thanks Frank, that pretty much sums it up. If you can break into the corporate market, you won’t have to work a comedy club unless you want to.

The best advice any working corporate comedian will tell you is to work CLEAN (G-Rated). You can’t live on edgy material as you can in comedy clubs, but you also don’t have to be all about business at corporate events. Keynote speakers, trainers and humorous speakers usually take care of the business-related topics in their presentations. Corporate comedians are entertainers just like on cruise ships, college campuses and in comedy clubs.

Not all comedy takes place in comedy clubs. As a comedian, where you perform can depend in what markets you want to work. Also, by remembering an important rule…

Know your audience.

Average pay for stand-up comedians

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Hi Dave – I need some information about how much an average pay is for stand-up comedians. I have an opportunity to open up a (local) coffee house and I was thinking of doing a comedy night once a week with two or three comedians. – G.A.

Hey G.A. – This is a question that comes up a lot and probably the toughest to answer. I’ll do my best, so here we go…

It depends.

I always emphasize that comedy is a creative art just like playing music, writing a song, a book, painting a picture, or taking a picture. If you want to make a living through creative art, then it becomes a business. And as one of my favorite comedians (in the world!) said in my book How To Be A Working Comic:

It’s called show-BUSINESS and not show-ART.

Professional comedians expect to be paid for their work. A club owner expects to make money by charging customers to enjoy the comedians. They both have to make a profit for the business to work. That much is clear – correct?

After that is where it gets a little muddy.

You mentioned a coffee house doing a comedy night. That puts it into the “local” category, and I hope you don’t mind I added that observation into your question. It lets me off the hook a bit because it doesn’t include established comedy clubs such as The Improv, Funny Bone, Comedy Cellar, Zanies, Laugh Factory – and all the others that comedians would travel to and spend a few nights doing more than a few shows.

The established (name) clubs stick pretty close to the pay structures they use for openers and middle acts. The headliner’s fee is usually negotiated by their agent and can be based on the comic’s credits, number of tickets sold, percentage of sales (tickets plus food and alcohol), the amount of promotion the headliner is required to do (television, radio and print), and other business stuff. So, when it comes to booking and paying national acts…

It depends.

So, let’s get back to the local scene. Let’s say – as you did – you want to run a comedy night at a local venue.

Beginning comics usually work for free at open mics. The valuable stage experience is their payment. Comedians can’t improve unless they perform and there’s no way a comedian can actually practice comedy without an audience. Open-mic club owners are giving them that opportunity and hope to make whatever profit they can from selling drinks and food. If the club is successful and continues, both parties should be happy.

When it’s more than an open-mic, like you’re referring to in this question because you want to pay the performers, then you are most likely looking for more experienced comedians than you’d find at a beginning open-mic room. It could mean a cover charge, advance ticket sales, and food or drink minimums.

In other words, a bigger profit for the club than running an open mic. Now we’re talking show-BUSINESS, and that profit needs to be shared with the talent.

The comedians you book are providing a service. 

They’re being counted on to attract paying customers and use the experience they’ve earned performing free (paying their dues) at open mics to provide the type of entertainment that will attract new customers for future shows and repeat business. Remember, if someone has a great time at your comedy show, chances are good they’ll want to come back for another great time.

And as I always enjoy pointing out to potential clients that contact me about booking acts for their events – you get what you pay for.

The comedians that have worked hard and invested time, energy and talent to provide a quality performance – in other words, they have the stage experience to deliver proven laughs – need to be paid for that effort. How much? Again…

It depends.

For this specific question, since you referred to a local venue doing a comedy night, the following is a pretty accurate guideline to use. This would also work for bars, music clubs, bowling alleys, or any local place looking to book a once a week or one-time small venue show for a profit.

A comedian just breaking into paying gigs will most likely be hired as an opening act or MC. My experiences after leaving NYC and LA (the lowest paying places for beginning acts) and booking shows for smaller local clubs has found $50 to be pretty normal for a 10- or 15-minute set. If a club owner wants to go with a three person show like the established road comedy clubs – but keep local comic pricing – a middle act doing 20-25 minutes should expect somewhere between $50 and $100.

That depends on the size of the potential paying audience and the comedian’s experience. For many local clubs that do comedy shows once or twice a week, a middle act is almost a luxury. Most of the smaller clubs I’ve worked with try to keep their expenses down and go with a two-comedian show.

That leaves us with the headliner. The star of the show and the performer all club owners rely on to provide the quality entertainment their customers are paying for. A great headliner should mean repeat business and new customers for future shows. A dud headliner might mean this comedy club is booking a country singer for next week.

An experienced local comedian who might be working as a middle act in the established clubs should be looking at anywhere between $100 and $200 for a 45 minute to one hour headline set. Whether it’s the upper or lower end of that scale depends on the comedian’s experience.

In other words, the comedian’s credits. For example, if he’s been on television, he would have more drawing power (will sell more tickets) than someone who hasn’t. He would also expect to be paid more than someone who hasn’t.

And again – we’re talking about gigs in local clubs. This does not include corporate shows, colleges or special events. For those, comedians will expect “special” pricing.

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Okay, I know that’s vague. But from personal experiences hiring comedians and working with club owners and talent bookers, these are pretty accurate guidelines for smaller local clubs that want to do more than an anyone-regardless-of-experience-can-get-on-stage open-mic night. It’s also similar to what they might pay a local musician or deejay for a night’s worth of entertainment.

Again, the bottom line is that you usually get what you pay for.

So, whether you’re in a coffee shop or social club hoping to put on a good show, forget about booking your cousin’s girlfriend’s youngest brother who thinks he’s funny and will work for free. You may be laughing all the way to the bank before the show starts, and then crying through his set full of knock-knock jokes while your customers are making plans to spend their money in a different club next week.

In any business looking to hire, it’s always best to go with experience – and pay that person for his or her experience. So, for the definitive answer to your question:

It depends.

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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