Category Archives: Comedy FAQs And Answers

How old is too old to start?

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Hi Dave – I worked as a comedian for ten years, opening and featuring. Is 51 years of age too old to go back into it? – D.K.

Hey lady!!

Hey D.K. – You know what? That’s one of those questions only you – and anyone else who checks out a calendar before making a move – can answer for sure. But also “for sure” I have a few thoughts about this.

So here we go…

First of all, I consider comedy – writing and performing – to be a creative art. I’ve written that countless times in these FAQs And Answers, so no detailed explanation is needed.

It’s just the way it is.

I also believe using your creativity and being psyched (excited) about sharing your “art” with others is like a Fountain of Youth. Don’t laugh. Again, I’m serious. I’ve had too many former friends (and I mean former because I have no interest in hanging out with people like this) hit a lazy-boy chair (yeah, I know it’s La-Z-Boy, but I don’t feel like getting sued) at the age of 30 and announce they’re over the hill. They hang onto jobs they hate because it’s too much work to find another. Their free time is spent vegging and basically, watching and critiquing other people that are doing or creating other things.

They never seem to create anything except annoyance. And at least to me, they always seem to look and act a lot older than they really are. The only thing they accomplish is getting older.

Am I being too hard on these people? Maybe, but they won’t read this anyway.

With Phyllis Diller – laughing into her 90s!

And now that I’ve made my opinion perfectly clear, let me tell you about another creative artist who doesn’t look at his age as a barrier. Oh yeah, and we’re still friends…

A musician pal I hung with during my years living in NYC was deeply into heavy metal rock music. We’re talking Led Zeppelin, KISS and Guns & Roses type of screaming vocals, guitars, drums and, as expected, The Look of being a rock star. He didn’t make it as a teenager, or even into his twenties or thirties. But you know what?

He’s now in his 60s and rockin’ out harder than ever.

He has a real job to support his creative endeavors, but instead of investing his salary into buying a more comfortable chair and big screen TV experience, he built a recording studio in his basement. He’s continually writing (creating) and recording (performing). It’s his creative outlet and passion, but also more than just a hobby similar to playing in a local band on the weekends.

It’s a business.

About once a year he has enough material to release a CD of hard rock originals on his own independent label (same as self-publishing your book). Through the internet and YouTube, he’s developed a fan base in Germany and some Eastern European countries that the more youthful independent (and inexperienced) bands haven’t even discovered yet. It keeps him off the couch and more importantly, from wondering:

“What if…?”

Kick off a laugh-filled 2025!!

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So, how would you answer that question ten years from now? You might think 51 is old – but it’s not as old as you’ll be tomorrow, next week or next year. If you have a creative passion and want to give comedy a shot, there’s no better time than now.

And yeah, I know. That sounds like such an overused, tired and old cliché. But it wouldn’t be overused, tired and old if it didn’t make sense.

I won’t even get into stories of creative artists making it in their careers until they were older (Google Grandma Moses if you really need an example). I’ve heard Rodney Dangerfield sold paint until he was 40. Not sure how true that is (anyone want to throw me some facts?) but I tend to believe it.

There are different ways you can get back into the comedy game at a more advanced age. You need to consider your material and audience. But then again, that’s what just about every comic needs to do anyway.

For instance, you have a better chance of winning the Lottery than making a comedy career on the college circuit. Through my experience as a college agent I know that’s true. And as father to a couple college graduates, I know for a fact there’s nothing easier for them to tune-out than an old person (think over thirty) trying to make them laugh.

I remember interviewing Bill Engvall for my book Comedy FAQs And Answers and mentioning that I thought he’d get a lot of work in the college market. He told me I was nuts. He said his material was about being married and raising a family, which ain’t exactly what college audiences relate to.

I’m only surprised he didn’t hand me the invisible, “Here’s your sign!” He was sooo right…

But as you know, I also talk about the potential for work in more mature (think again over 30) markets, which means pretty much anything other than college and high school prom shows. Your open-mic circuit can include Rotary Clubs as well as comedy clubs. It’s a matter of writing material your potential audience will relate to and laugh at – and then finding the best venues to deliver it to them.

It’s also about telling yourself you’re not too old to do something you really want to do.

So, for another inspiring example to get you off the lazy-boy and onto the stage…

The age range in my comedy workshops has been pretty wide. We used to go as young as 13 (it’s now 18) and as old as… well, there’s no limit. The record so far is 84 years young. And you know what?

He ended up working a lot more than some of the much younger members.

This late-starting comedian knew what he was interested in talking about and what potential audience would be interested in hearing it. His material was about being 84 and some of the things he – and others near his age – was doing and dealing with. He was fun, funny, active and creative. And believe it or not, he started working almost immediately because he was an original rarity.

An older adult doing comedy.

He booked MC spots in good clubs but made a financial killing playing events for senior citizens. I kid you not! Last time we talked – and this was a few years ago – he was a working comic and bouncing around like a guy half his age.

Okay, maybe except for the ones half his age that are stuck in comfortable chairs and critiquing him for being “too old” to do that sort of thing…

So, are you too old at age 51?

It’s up to you, but I don’t know if that reason alone could truly hold a creative artist back from at least giving it a shot. As far as I’m concerned, it beats the heck out of vegging in a chair and watching someone else go for it on your large screen TV…

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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For comments, questions about workshops and coaching please email – Dave@TheComedyBook.com

Back of the room sales at corporate events

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Hi Dave – Your recent discussions about corporate comedy and speaking raises a question about back-of-room (BOR) sales. Merchandise sales are common in comedy shows and speaking engagements open to the public. But what about corporate gigs where the company is paying you? Is that something most companies accept, or is it generally frowned upon? At the very least, I would think we should focus very little on our products during the presentation itself (30 seconds max). How do you handle this? Thanks! DG

At the back of the room!

Hey DG – Like just about everything else in the speaking and comedy biz, it depends.

BOR sales of merchandise is so common today that I’m always surprised when the speaker – or comedy headliner AND feature act AND opening act – isn’t camped behind a table full of merch (show-biz slang) and selling everything that isn’t nailed down after the show.

It’s a big source of income. In fact, it’s not even looked at anymore as extra income. In some cases, BOR sales can add up to more money than what the comic or speaker is being paid by the talent booker just to do the gig.

For a big-time, big money example…

A few years ago, I was talking to a comedian friend (who will remain nameless because I’ll drop dollar amounts in this story, but as a hint she is in my book Comedy FAQs And Answers). She was in a panic going from a show in Florida to another in Cleveland because she had completely sold-out all her BOR merch. She needed her agent to send a shipment over-night so her money-making DVDs, CDs, T-Shirts, photos (to autograph for $$’s) and books would be available for fans to purchase after her Cleveland show.

Have I got a deal for you!

If I remember correctly, she was paid about 10 grand for the performance itself. What I do remember correctly is that she told me she made 22 grand selling merchandise after the Florida show!

Yeah, I’d be in a panic too.

Comics and speakers sell all kinds of stuff. Audience members can look at these items as souvenirs of a fun night and also a chance to get an autographed copy of something. And just in case the performer becomes famous the fan can make some money selling it on eBay. But that’s a totally different business proposition…

But you’re definitely correct it’s different when playing a corporate-paid gig. It can be done – and is quite often – but in my opinion, you need permission in advance from the person signing your check.

You don’t ever want to surprise a corporate client or event planner by setting up your mini store at an important training seminar or formal banquet without an agreement made in advance. In fact, I recommend you get the permission in writing and that it’s included in your signed contract. I use a contract rider that includes everything from BOR sales to the exact wording of my introduction and what type of microphone I prefer.

So even if they don’t remember giving you permission for BOR sales and ask you to start putting all your merch back into the trunk of your car, you’ll have proof of the prior agreement.

So how do I handle all this? Thank you for asking. As usual, it depends…

I do two separate corporate programs. One is based on my comedy workshops and communications course I designed for Cleveland State University. It has a 60-page workbook, but it’s not for BOR sales and I don’t pitch it during my program. The client has an option to purchase copies in advance for audience giveaways. If it’s a half or full day training seminar, it’s added into my fee so everyone in attendance will have one because we’ll use it during the program. Either way I’ll know how many are needed and can have them printed up in advance.

So, I won’t even make a 30 second pitch for BOR sales during this particular corporate-paid program. I’ll stay afterwards to talk and trade business cards because as you should already know, it’s all about networking. You never know who’s in the audience that might want to hire you for a future gig.

And when that happens, ask them in advance about BOR sales!

My second program is not for training purposes, but as entertainment. Since this is what comedians do in clubs, pay attention…

This is a pop culture program based on my books The Beatles At Shea Stadium and The Beatles In Cleveland. For this one it’s already in the contract that I do BOR sales. Like I mentioned above – and how most comedians and other entertainers should look at it – I consider this as part of my payment for doing the gig. It also helps in negotiating since BOR sales will allow me to come in for a lower fee than a no BOR sales training seminar. Book sales make up the difference.

Then again, that’s what I do and I’m only spelling it out because you asked. I’m in no-way a know-it-all about this and I’m sure there are working comics and speakers reading who will have more thoughts and personal experiences about this topic.

Care to share? We’d love to hear from you.

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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For comments, questions about workshops and coaching please email – Dave@TheComedyBook.com

Record for your own protection

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Hi Dave – I was talking with another comic about a court case from a few years ago. A customer in a comedy club sued the comic over his (adult) language. She claimed to be stressed and shocked and won the case. We record every set mainly so we can hear which jokes work and how well. Now it’s important to document what was actually said. This was a case of a comic being accused of using inappropriate language in a mandatory “clean” show. – BM

Disorder in the court!

Hey BM – I remember that case and wrote about it in a FAQs article when the verdict came down. A lot of people in the comedy biz were shocked over what happened. To borrow a phrase from an influential club booker who seems to repeat it every time we talk, comedy clubs are “The Last Bastion of Free Speech.” In other words, he feels as long as the comedian is funny it’s okay to have an opinion to say what he or she wants on stage and not worry about being politically correct.

But it’s not that simple.

It didn’t take a court case for most working comics to understand there are limits on language and topics depending on the venue, audience and event. For example, what you can expect to hear during a late night show in a comedy club vs. a corporate event will be different.

As you mentioned, it’s important to record all your sets. This is a great way to help you improve as a writer and performer. If your performance is funny the audience will laugh. If it sucks, you’ll hear crickets from the segments of the room where your family and friends are not sitting. You can develop your act off the response.

Proof is on the recording

As you also mentioned, recording your set is a way to “document” what is said on stage. Based on the result of the court case, having proof of what you said can be just as important.

Some performers may not realize this, but did you know that some club owners or managers record the shows? It’s nothing new. Many clubs have a permanent camera installed and aimed toward the stage. Before that in “ancient times” (pre video cameras) quite a few had an audio recorder going.

I know. I’ve been around since the “ancient times” and saw this happening.

I’ve also seen this documentation (proof) used to show performers that what they advertised (promised) was not what they delivered. And in some cases, it justified the talent booker not paying the performer.

Example…

A few years ago I received a call from a booker to warn me about a certain comedian who was promoting himself as a clean (G-rated) act. He had scheduled the comic for a corporate show and was called-out by the client because the comic not only talked graphically about sex, but also dropped the F-bomb in the process.

Of course the comic protested. He said his material was not that dirty.

So the talent booker told him to prove it. Send the audio or video. The comic couldn’t because he didn’t record. So it came down to the client’s word vs. the comic’s word.

Can you guess who won?

Yeah, the angry and offended client with big corporate $$’s to spend on his next event.

The booker still hoped some of that money would be spent on one of his performers, so case closed. The client demanded and received a refund, so neither the talent booker or the comic was paid. And since the talent booker wasn’t used to getting yelled at by clients because the performers he works with are expected to understand the event and “know the audience,” he called other talent bookers to warn them of the potential nightmare that comes from working with that particular comic.

That’s how I heard about it.

So now getting back to the article you mentioned, I’m guessing the judge made a ruling based on whose lawyer sounded most convincing. I don’t remember reading about the comedian recording his set. If he had, it might (or might not) have saved him time, trouble, money and future work. It’s important for creative artists to have freedom of expression, but I’ll also add this from a business side of the creative entertainment business:

There are certain limits.

What do I mean by that stipulation?

A comedy club normally is for people ages 21 and over. If someone fits that demographic but is easily offended, then they need to follow the rule of “buyer beware.” If the show is announced for “mature audiences only” you can bet the comic on stage will practice his or her right of free speech at some point or another. If someone doesn’t like it – they should leave.

It’s similar to watching television. If I don’t like a show I’ll change the channel. But I won’t impose my beliefs on someone else who might enjoy it. As an example I’ll use all the violent murder and detective shows that I have no desire to watch. But they pull in high ratings, so who am I to prevent others from tuning in? Instead, I’ll just change the channel to The Voice or a rerun of Seinfeld. Those are the types of shows I enjoy watching.

But performers also need to be aware of the event and audience.

As mentioned above, a late night comedy club show will be different than a corporate event. Comedy clubs are where comedians can practice free speech, while corporate comics need to be funny using G-rated material.

To prove (document) my point, here’s an experience with someone that “did not know his audience” that I still find unforgettable and unforgivable…

Many years ago I took our then 5 year-old son to a very well known amusement park. It wasn’t Disney because they have standards about this stuff. But as we walked around all these rides and games meant for little kids, I saw a guy wearing a white t-shirt with the F-Bomb spelled out in all it’s four-letter glory in BIG bold black lettering as in “F(bomb) YOU!”

Sorry “Mr. Living-On-The-Edge”, but that was not the time or place for your political incorrectness. Performers who work in the comedy and speaking biz will understand. It’s called “knowing your audience “and the audience this idiot had was a bunch of 5-year-old kids with their parents.

This goes both ways.

Performers must know your audience. Audiences must realize where they are. If it’s a corporate show it’ll be clean. If it’s a comedy club, chances are something will be said that’s not appropriate for 5 year old kids or anyone easily offended.

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When you cross the line, that’s when the trouble – and bad-mouthing phone calls – can start. Your best defense is to always record your set and be sure it backs up what you’ve been hired to do.

Oh, and by the way – I reported the idiot wearing the “F-Bomb” t-shirt to administrators at the amusement park. I don’t know if they told him to change or to leave, but I hope they at least made part of his day a hassle. LOL!!!

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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For comments, questions about workshops and coaching please email – Dave@TheComedyBook.com