Category Archives: Comedy FAQs And Answers

How old is too old to start?

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Hi Dave – I worked as a comedian for ten years, opening and featuring. Is 51 years of age too old to go back into it? – D.K.

Hey lady!!

Hey D.K. – You know what? That’s one of those questions only you – and anyone else who checks out a calendar before making a move – can answer for sure. But also “for sure” I have a few thoughts about this.

So here we go…

First of all, I consider comedy – writing and performing – to be a creative art. I’ve written that countless times in these FAQs And Answers, so no detailed explanation is needed.

It’s just the way it is.

I also believe using your creativity and being psyched (excited) about sharing your “art” with others is like a Fountain of Youth. Don’t laugh. Again, I’m serious. I’ve had too many former friends (and I mean former because I have no interest in hanging out with people like this) hit a lazy-boy chair (yeah, I know it’s La-Z-Boy, but I don’t feel like getting sued) at the age of 30 and announce they’re over the hill. They hang onto jobs they hate because it’s too much work to find another. Their free time is spent vegging and basically, watching and critiquing other people that are doing or creating other things.

They never seem to create anything except annoyance. And at least to me, they always seem to look and act a lot older than they really are. The only thing they accomplish is getting older.

Am I being too hard on these people? Maybe, but they won’t read this anyway.

With Phyllis Diller – laughing into her 90s!

And now that I’ve made my opinion perfectly clear, let me tell you about another creative artist who doesn’t look at his age as a barrier. Oh yeah, and we’re still friends…

A musician pal I hung with during my years living in NYC was deeply into heavy metal rock music. We’re talking Led Zeppelin, KISS and Guns & Roses type of screaming vocals, guitars, drums and, as expected, The Look of being a rock star. He didn’t make it as a teenager, or even into his twenties or thirties. But you know what?

He’s now in his 60s and rockin’ out harder than ever.

He has a real job to support his creative endeavors, but instead of investing his salary into buying a more comfortable chair and big screen TV experience, he built a recording studio in his basement. He’s continually writing (creating) and recording (performing). It’s his creative outlet and passion, but also more than just a hobby similar to playing in a local band on the weekends.

It’s a business.

About once a year he has enough material to release a CD of hard rock originals on his own independent label (same as self-publishing your book). Through the internet and YouTube, he’s developed a fan base in Germany and some Eastern European countries that the more youthful independent (and inexperienced) bands haven’t even discovered yet. It keeps him off the couch and more importantly, from wondering:

“What if…?”

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So, how would you answer that question ten years from now? You might think 51 is old – but it’s not as old as you’ll be tomorrow, next week or next year. If you have a creative passion and want to give comedy a shot, there’s no better time than now.

And yeah, I know. That sounds like such an overused, tired and old cliché. But it wouldn’t be overused, tired and old if it didn’t make sense.

I won’t even get into stories of creative artists making it in their careers until they were older (Google Grandma Moses if you really need an example). I’ve heard Rodney Dangerfield sold paint until he was 40. Not sure how true that is (anyone want to throw me some facts?) but I tend to believe it.

There are different ways you can get back into the comedy game at a more advanced age. You need to consider your material and audience. But then again, that’s what just about every comic needs to do anyway.

For instance, you have a better chance of winning the Lottery than making a comedy career on the college circuit. Through my experience as a college agent I know that’s true. And as father to a couple college graduates, I know for a fact there’s nothing easier for them to tune-out than an old person (think over thirty) trying to make them laugh.

I remember interviewing Bill Engvall for my book Comedy FAQs And Answers and mentioning that I thought he’d get a lot of work in the college market. He told me I was nuts. He said his material was about being married and raising a family, which ain’t exactly what college audiences relate to.

I’m only surprised he didn’t hand me the invisible, “Here’s your sign!” He was sooo right…

But as you know, I also talk about the potential for work in more mature (think again over 30) markets, which means pretty much anything other than college and high school prom shows. Your open-mic circuit can include Rotary Clubs as well as comedy clubs. It’s a matter of writing material your potential audience will relate to and laugh at – and then finding the best venues to deliver it to them.

It’s also about telling yourself you’re not too old to do something you really want to do.

So, for another inspiring example to get you off the lazy-boy and onto the stage…

The age range in my comedy workshops has been pretty wide. We used to go as young as 13 (it’s now 18) and as old as… well, there’s no limit. The record so far is 84 years young. And you know what?

He ended up working a lot more than some of the much younger members.

This late-starting comedian knew what he was interested in talking about and what potential audience would be interested in hearing it. His material was about being 84 and some of the things he – and others near his age – was doing and dealing with. He was fun, funny, active and creative. And believe it or not, he started working almost immediately because he was an original rarity.

An older adult doing comedy.

He booked MC spots in good clubs but made a financial killing playing events for senior citizens. I kid you not! Last time we talked – and this was a few years ago – he was a working comic and bouncing around like a guy half his age.

Okay, maybe except for the ones half his age that are stuck in comfortable chairs and critiquing him for being “too old” to do that sort of thing…

So, are you too old at age 51?

It’s up to you, but I don’t know if that reason alone could truly hold a creative artist back from at least giving it a shot. As far as I’m concerned, it beats the heck out of vegging in a chair and watching someone else go for it on your large screen TV…

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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For comments, questions about workshops and coaching please email – Dave@TheComedyBook.com

Back of the room sales at corporate events

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Hi Dave – Your recent discussions about corporate comedy and speaking raises a question about back-of-room (BOR) sales. Merchandise sales are common in comedy shows and speaking engagements open to the public. But what about corporate gigs where the company is paying you? Is that something most companies accept, or is it generally frowned upon? At the very least, I would think we should focus very little on our products during the presentation itself (30 seconds max). How do you handle this? Thanks! DG

At the back of the room!

Hey DG – Like just about everything else in the speaking and comedy biz, it depends.

BOR sales of merchandise is so common today that I’m always surprised when the speaker – or comedy headliner AND feature act AND opening act – isn’t camped behind a table full of merch (show-biz slang) and selling everything that isn’t nailed down after the show.

It’s a big source of income. In fact, it’s not even looked at anymore as extra income. In some cases, BOR sales can add up to more money than what the comic or speaker is being paid by the talent booker just to do the gig.

For a big-time, big money example…

A few years ago, I was talking to a comedian friend (who will remain nameless because I’ll drop dollar amounts in this story, but as a hint she is in my book Comedy FAQs And Answers). She was in a panic going from a show in Florida to another in Cleveland because she had completely sold-out all her BOR merch. She needed her agent to send a shipment over-night so her money-making DVDs, CDs, T-Shirts, photos (to autograph for $$’s) and books would be available for fans to purchase after her Cleveland show.

Have I got a deal for you!

If I remember correctly, she was paid about 10 grand for the performance itself. What I do remember correctly is that she told me she made 22 grand selling merchandise after the Florida show!

Yeah, I’d be in a panic too.

Comics and speakers sell all kinds of stuff. Audience members can look at these items as souvenirs of a fun night and also a chance to get an autographed copy of something. And just in case the performer becomes famous the fan can make some money selling it on eBay. But that’s a totally different business proposition…

But you’re definitely correct it’s different when playing a corporate-paid gig. It can be done – and is quite often – but in my opinion, you need permission in advance from the person signing your check.

You don’t ever want to surprise a corporate client or event planner by setting up your mini store at an important training seminar or formal banquet without an agreement made in advance. In fact, I recommend you get the permission in writing and that it’s included in your signed contract. I use a contract rider that includes everything from BOR sales to the exact wording of my introduction and what type of microphone I prefer.

So even if they don’t remember giving you permission for BOR sales and ask you to start putting all your merch back into the trunk of your car, you’ll have proof of the prior agreement.

So how do I handle all this? Thank you for asking. As usual, it depends…

I do two separate corporate programs. One is based on my comedy workshops and communications course I designed for Cleveland State University. It has a 60-page workbook, but it’s not for BOR sales and I don’t pitch it during my program. The client has an option to purchase copies in advance for audience giveaways. If it’s a half or full day training seminar, it’s added into my fee so everyone in attendance will have one because we’ll use it during the program. Either way I’ll know how many are needed and can have them printed up in advance.

So, I won’t even make a 30 second pitch for BOR sales during this particular corporate-paid program. I’ll stay afterwards to talk and trade business cards because as you should already know, it’s all about networking. You never know who’s in the audience that might want to hire you for a future gig.

And when that happens, ask them in advance about BOR sales!

My second program is not for training purposes, but as entertainment. Since this is what comedians do in clubs, pay attention…

This is a pop culture program based on my books The Beatles At Shea Stadium and The Beatles In Cleveland. For this one it’s already in the contract that I do BOR sales. Like I mentioned above – and how most comedians and other entertainers should look at it – I consider this as part of my payment for doing the gig. It also helps in negotiating since BOR sales will allow me to come in for a lower fee than a no BOR sales training seminar. Book sales make up the difference.

Then again, that’s what I do and I’m only spelling it out because you asked. I’m in no-way a know-it-all about this and I’m sure there are working comics and speakers reading who will have more thoughts and personal experiences about this topic.

Care to share? We’d love to hear from you.

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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Record for your own protection

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Hi Dave – I was talking with another comic about a court case from a few years ago. A customer in a comedy club sued the comic over his (adult) language. She claimed to be stressed and shocked and won the case. We record every set mainly so we can hear which jokes work and how well. Now it’s important to document what was actually said. This was a case of a comic being accused of using inappropriate language in a mandatory “clean” show. – BM

Disorder in the court!

Hey BM – I remember that case and wrote about it in a FAQs article when the verdict came down. A lot of people in the comedy biz were shocked over what happened. To borrow a phrase from an influential club booker who seems to repeat it every time we talk, comedy clubs are “The Last Bastion of Free Speech.” In other words, he feels as long as the comedian is funny it’s okay to have an opinion to say what he or she wants on stage and not worry about being politically correct.

But it’s not that simple.

It didn’t take a court case for most working comics to understand there are limits on language and topics depending on the venue, audience and event. For example, what you can expect to hear during a late night show in a comedy club vs. a corporate event will be different.

As you mentioned, it’s important to record all your sets. This is a great way to help you improve as a writer and performer. If your performance is funny the audience will laugh. If it sucks, you’ll hear crickets from the segments of the room where your family and friends are not sitting. You can develop your act off the response.

Proof is on the recording

As you also mentioned, recording your set is a way to “document” what is said on stage. Based on the result of the court case, having proof of what you said can be just as important.

Some performers may not realize this, but did you know that some club owners or managers record the shows? It’s nothing new. Many clubs have a permanent camera installed and aimed toward the stage. Before that in “ancient times” (pre video cameras) quite a few had an audio recorder going.

I know. I’ve been around since the “ancient times” and saw this happening.

I’ve also seen this documentation (proof) used to show performers that what they advertised (promised) was not what they delivered. And in some cases, it justified the talent booker not paying the performer.

Example…

A few years ago I received a call from a booker to warn me about a certain comedian who was promoting himself as a clean (G-rated) act. He had scheduled the comic for a corporate show and was called-out by the client because the comic not only talked graphically about sex, but also dropped the F-bomb in the process.

Of course the comic protested. He said his material was not that dirty.

So the talent booker told him to prove it. Send the audio or video. The comic couldn’t because he didn’t record. So it came down to the client’s word vs. the comic’s word.

Can you guess who won?

Yeah, the angry and offended client with big corporate $$’s to spend on his next event.

The booker still hoped some of that money would be spent on one of his performers, so case closed. The client demanded and received a refund, so neither the talent booker or the comic was paid. And since the talent booker wasn’t used to getting yelled at by clients because the performers he works with are expected to understand the event and “know the audience,” he called other talent bookers to warn them of the potential nightmare that comes from working with that particular comic.

That’s how I heard about it.

So now getting back to the article you mentioned, I’m guessing the judge made a ruling based on whose lawyer sounded most convincing. I don’t remember reading about the comedian recording his set. If he had, it might (or might not) have saved him time, trouble, money and future work. It’s important for creative artists to have freedom of expression, but I’ll also add this from a business side of the creative entertainment business:

There are certain limits.

What do I mean by that stipulation?

A comedy club normally is for people ages 21 and over. If someone fits that demographic but is easily offended, then they need to follow the rule of “buyer beware.” If the show is announced for “mature audiences only” you can bet the comic on stage will practice his or her right of free speech at some point or another. If someone doesn’t like it – they should leave.

It’s similar to watching television. If I don’t like a show I’ll change the channel. But I won’t impose my beliefs on someone else who might enjoy it. As an example I’ll use all the violent murder and detective shows that I have no desire to watch. But they pull in high ratings, so who am I to prevent others from tuning in? Instead, I’ll just change the channel to The Voice or a rerun of Seinfeld. Those are the types of shows I enjoy watching.

But performers also need to be aware of the event and audience.

As mentioned above, a late night comedy club show will be different than a corporate event. Comedy clubs are where comedians can practice free speech, while corporate comics need to be funny using G-rated material.

To prove (document) my point, here’s an experience with someone that “did not know his audience” that I still find unforgettable and unforgivable…

Many years ago I took our then 5 year-old son to a very well known amusement park. It wasn’t Disney because they have standards about this stuff. But as we walked around all these rides and games meant for little kids, I saw a guy wearing a white t-shirt with the F-Bomb spelled out in all it’s four-letter glory in BIG bold black lettering as in “F(bomb) YOU!”

Sorry “Mr. Living-On-The-Edge”, but that was not the time or place for your political incorrectness. Performers who work in the comedy and speaking biz will understand. It’s called “knowing your audience “and the audience this idiot had was a bunch of 5-year-old kids with their parents.

This goes both ways.

Performers must know your audience. Audiences must realize where they are. If it’s a corporate show it’ll be clean. If it’s a comedy club, chances are something will be said that’s not appropriate for 5 year old kids or anyone easily offended.

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When you cross the line, that’s when the trouble – and bad-mouthing phone calls – can start. Your best defense is to always record your set and be sure it backs up what you’ve been hired to do.

Oh, and by the way – I reported the idiot wearing the “F-Bomb” t-shirt to administrators at the amusement park. I don’t know if they told him to change or to leave, but I hope they at least made part of his day a hassle. LOL!!!

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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For comments, questions about workshops and coaching please email – Dave@TheComedyBook.com

New material for a comedy contest?

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Hey Dave – I won a spot in the amateur contest finale show next week. My question to you is this: I used my same set that you saw and it “rocked”. Should I go back there with that exact same set or a completely new one untested? Can I put in a few new bits and keep the rest the same? Thanks for your time – N.D.

Hey N.D. – That’s great news – congrats! Good things can happen when you “rock” on stage.

To answer your question, I’ll need to rely on what I’ve been told by too many comedians and behind the scenes people over the years. I’ve been involved with many auditions, which are different than contests. At an audition the comedians would do anywhere from five to seven minutes to be considered for a booking. When I was in Los Angeles it was three to five minutes when auditioning for most of the television shows, including The Tonight Show and on down the list.

And in case you’re wondering, auditions for America’s Got Talent are 90 seconds. You don’t need a lot of time to make an impression in this crazy biz.

We didn’t see the same material twice because there were no preliminaries and finals like in a comedy contest. The comic either got the gig or didn’t. If one of the talent bookers wanted to see the comic again it meant he/she was interested, but also wanted to see different material.

In comedy contests you have to know “what got you there” and what will keep you around until the end. In my book Comedy FAQs And Answers, I asked the same question to an important Hollywood television producer (you’ll have to read the book to find out). His answer?

“Always go with your A-Game.”

Pick a winner!

In other words, never do an audition, showcase or (important) contest with untested material. Otherwise just consider it “stage time” (practice) and use it as that. Use it to work on material, delivery, timing, stage fright or whatever you need to improve to get better.

But since you’re excited by going this far in the contest you should follow the above advice. Go with your A-Game and don’t do the untested set.

Since this is during a live show and not a repeat performance in front of a small panel of judges you’re going to have a different audience. So don’t worry about people having heard your material earlier. And as for the club staff, the hard workers behind the scenes are there every night and know many comedians do essentially the same act every show.

But now we’ll throw a little variation into the mix…

Comedians – good comedians anyway – are creative artists. I’ve said that many times before because it’s true. They are constantly writing and constantly anxious to try out new material to see how an audience will react. Many of my favorites that I’ve seen dozens of times over the years always have something new to say. But they also know “what got them there” as far as paid bookings and fans. They already know through experience what material is proven to work, whether it’s a great opening, closing or a solid punch to the funny bone in the middle of their set, and they’ll deliver it.

When a comedian does a Netflix special or competes on America’s Got Talent, you can bet the material has been tried out more than a few times before the show is filmed. The stakes are too high and no one including the comedian, management, producer, network and beyond can afford a “bomb.” It wouldn’t help anyone’s career.

But let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves…

You are going up in an amateur contest next week, which isn’t in front of Netflix or AGT producers, but it can also be an important step in your career. If your creativity is telling you to try something new, it’s probably a good idea to try it out somewhere else first. Do some open mics and get a feel for the delivery and audience response. It’s what you did anyway in putting together the material that “got you there” and the process shouldn’t stop now.

When it comes to the contest performance, do the material that really works best. If it’s the same set you did it at the earlier show, the new audience won’t know. And unless the contest judges requested something new – and obviously they didn’t or we wouldn’t be having this discussion – they should make their decisions based on audience response. Of course it doesn’t always happen that way, but your main goal should be entertaining the audience. If you get a great response and don’t get crowned the winner, it’s not the end of the world – or your career.

You still win. You’ve had more stage time, which is an opportunity to get better. And as far as I know and from what I’ve been told, that’s what’s important to a creative artist.

Remember what got you there – a set that rocked. You want to rock again and that could be a crapshoot for a newer comedian with untested material. In these situations give them your best – your A-Game. But keep writing and looking for more opportunities to get on stage because in the long run, that’s how you’ll put together the material “that got you there” when Netflix or Simon Cowell finally give you a call.

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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Breaking Into the College Market

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Hi, Dave – I hope things are going well. I have a friend teaches a class at a nearby university. He put me in contact with the director of the department and we set up a date for me to do a 45–60-minute comedy show. I asked if the school had a budget for this type of entertainment. She emailed a reply that their events are “a bit below market value” and asked me to share “ballpark numbers” with her. She added “sincere gratitude for my time and travel and what amount might be meaningful” for me.

I know I probably should’ve looked for an agent before getting a gig like this, but I’ll take this opportunity in any way I can. I just don’t exactly know what the ballpark is, I don’t want to go too high or low, I was wondering if you can point me in the right direction. This is exciting and somewhat surreal that this is finally happening. Thanks – R.

Varsity Sport

Hey R. – Good to hear from you. Things are going well (thank you) and it also sounds like things are going well for you.

The college market for performers can be very lucrative. Student Activities Departments receive funding from enrollment tuitions that needs to be spent while the students paying it are still in school. Think about that. If part of your money is going toward entertainment, but they don’t provide the entertainment while you’re there, you’re not going to be very happy about it.

So, they spend because they need to.

Now, that’s not saying colleges and universities have unlimited budgets, but in my experiences as a college agent (for almost eight years) they have more to spend than an average comedy club.

But it’s not an easy market to break into. Your comedy material needs to be relatable to college-aged students. For example, unless the comic is a celebrity, the audience is not going to be very interested in someone’s “mom or dad” telling jokes that doesn’t fit their interests.

A good example of this was given to me during an interview with Bill Engvall for my book, Comedy FAQs And Answers: How The Stand-Up Biz Really Works. We were actually talking about how to protect your material – he has a trademark on his brilliant hook, “Here’s your sign” (it’s in the book). I happened to mention he must be popular on the college circuit because that’s such a funny bit. But he disagreed. He said his comedy is mostly about family, being married, having kids and being an adult. Students – much younger than both of us – had no interest in that. They couldn’t relate, so he stayed away from doing colleges.

Okay, that makes sense.

So, many (newer) comedians looking to break into the college market might assume they need topics the students can really relate to. Probably sleeping through classes, getting drunk, getting high, having sex, and all the really fun reasons for anyone to go to college.

Okay, that also makes sense – but not how you will get bookings.

Says it all…

Student Activities boards make the decisions about entertainment on campuses. Many of the comedy shows happen during special events – such as Parent’s Weekend, Little Sibs Weekends, Homecoming, Alumni Weekends and… well, you get the idea. The decision makers do not want parents (who might be paying the tuition) and others to think all their student do is party, sleep and repeat. So, they are very selective about the material comedians perform during their shows.

Okay, that’s just a general overview. If you think you have an act that will work in the college market, let’s move on to today’s question. Let’s say you’ve used a connection to book your first college gig. But word of warning: the answer will be practical and vague at the same time.

First of all, it could be the beginning of something good. If you’ve scored your first college gig, don’t worry about having an agent do the deal for you. Not yet and not under these circumstances. You made the connection and can play it through yourself without having to share a percentage.

Second of all – a good (reliable) college agent would be tough for you to find right now – simply because you haven’t had experience doing college gigs yet.

It’s a problem a lot of comedians working in the college market have had to deal with at the beginning of their careers. I’ve heard about it often. Comedians have told me they can’t get “good” (well paying) college gigs without an agent. However, they can’t get an agent without having experience doing college gigs.

It’s what they call “Catch-22” (look it up if you need to).

You’re already on a good path by scoring this college gig on your own. What you really want out of this most – more than big bucks – is the resume credit, a recommendation from student activities or someone at the college associated with the gig. Just a simple “great job”, “love working with you”, “very professional”, “students loved the show” – whatever you can get that is positive.

This can be obtained by sending a “thank you” email after the gig – and asking for any feedback. You would use their positive statement or review as promotion to book more college shows. Positive college reviews are also a good way to get college agents interested in working with you.

Most important – you will need a video of your set filmed in front of a college audience. Sometimes the schools will do this for you. They might have a film department that will look at this as a project. As a college agent, I’ve arranged that for some of the acts I represented. It never hurts to ask.

But if that doesn’t happen, then do it yourself. This is a good opportunity to show college agents and other schools how you perform for students. You might need to bring a friend to help with this. Have a camera or phone aimed at you on stage – and another filming the audience. Now, I know some schools will not allow you to film students, but even set up in the back of the room or off to the side will allow you to film their reactions without showing their faces. Why is this important? I’ll tell you from experience…

Potential talent bookers and agents like to see you and your audience’s reaction. Watch some of the television comedy specials – or even older ones like A&E’s An Evening at the Improv.” Comics will do a bit and then there’s a quick cut to the audience laughing. It’s how the “professionals” do it and shows the viewer how much the audience enjoys your show.

I’ve coached comics in the past to do a free show on campus – just to have that video for potential college agents. But if you already have a gig on campus, you’re past that “free” show stage. Just make sure you get a good video. It should pay off in the future.

Okay, now for the “vague” part…

As mentioned earlier, colleges and universities have money to spend on entertainment through Student Activities. In my past experiences they pay a lot more than regular gigs in comedy clubs (with a note that headliners are different). But until you reach that status as a performer and have no college performing experience, the main goal is to get the resume credit and video.

When I was just breaking into the college market as an agent, I thought it would be a brilliant business technique to go for less money than what other (more established) agents were asking when booking newer comedians. But it didn’t work out as planned. My other agent-friends told me the students activities representatives would think my clients weren’t as good (funny) because they were cheaper. The idea was that a higher price meant they would give a better show.

Really…?

Okay – so I went with that idea. I learned that most of the newer comedians were asking for – and getting – $1,000 for an hour show. There was also a lot of negotiating and block bookings to give schools better deals and in the process, the comedians more money – but that’s also in the book Comedy FAQs and Answers. Yeah, I know… cheap plug.

But remember at this stage of your beginning college market career, it’s more important to get the credit, a recommendation, and a video.

Since today’s question asked about the “going rate” for a college performance, you might need to do a little research. If you know from being part of your “comedy scene” anyone that does college shows, ask for their advice. Otherwise, pick a figure that works for you. It could be $500 or $100 for a 45-60-minute show. Mention to the booker that’s what “your friend” suggested and then throw the ball back onto their court. Ask if that fits into their budget.

Then wait for an answer. See what they offer.

In my opinion – and only if this is local and doesn’t involve hours or days traveling – I would take it. BUT AGAIN, I say this only for newer comedians looking to break into the college market. The most valuable payment is leaving with a college performance credit, a recommendation, and a good video that can help you work with a college agency or to book other college gigs on your own.

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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For comments, questions about workshops and coaching please email – Dave@TheComedyBook.com