By Siddesh Pai – “I Help Comedians, Humor Keynote Speakers & Entrepreneurs Enhance Their Personal Brand Through Targeted Newsletters | Standup Comedian”
Readers: You can locate Siddesh Pai through the following link on LinkedIn. This is an interview we did earlier this year and I liked it enough to share it. Thanks Siddesh and keep laughing!!
3 Lessons I Learned From a 30-Year Comedy Veteran – Dave Schwensen
Talking comedy
Dave has been working in comedy for three decades. But he wants to make one thing clear: he’s not a stand-up comedian. To me, it felt like a writer who doesn’t read. But that’s exactly what makes him different—he’s spent his career booking, coaching, and writing on the business of comedy. In our conversation, he dropped some serious wisdom on why treating comedy like a business is the key to making it a career.
1) Comedy Can’t Be Taught—But It Can Be Coached
“I don’t believe you can teach comedy. What I think is funny, you might not. My kids certainly don’t think I’m funny.” I can’t tell you the Three Stooges are funny if you don’t find slipping on a banana peel hilarious, there’s nothing he can do to change that. This is where coaching comes in. Every comedian has a different style, a different rhythm, and a different worldview. Dave helps comics refine that—polishing the delivery, cutting the fat from jokes, and shaping a strong act. Because at the end of the day, you can’t teach funny. But you can help someone be funnier.
2) No One Is Going to Hand You Stage Time – You Have to Create It
“You can’t teach timing, you can’t teach delivery, and you sure as hell can’t teach stage presence. You have to get up there and do it.” Most comedians think getting better means hitting open mics over and over. But Dave has a different take – go where the audience actually wants entertainment. Clubs are competitive. You’re performing for other comics, waiting for their turn. But business events, fundraisers, and community groups? They’re desperate for entertainment. Your first gigs might be free, but that’s how you build momentum. One day, you’re performing at a Rotary Club for free. The next, someone offers you $500 to do the same set. Stage time is currency. The more you get, the faster you grow.
3) They Call It Amateur Night, But No One Is Trying to Hire an Amateur
A lot of comedians treat stand-up like a passion project. But the ones who make a career out of it? They treat it like a business. – Networking Matters – Hanging out with comics at open mics isn’t enough. Get to know bookers, producers, and event organizers. These are the people who can actually get you paid work. – Market Yourself – Being funny isn’t enough if no one knows you exist. Build a brand, create content, and stay on people’s radar. Your name should pop up when someone’s looking for a comedian. – Be a Professional – Show up on time. Have a tight five. Be easy to work with. Give people your business card. Make yourself easy to book. The comedians who get booked aren’t just the funniest—they’re the ones who treat it like a business.
Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!
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For comments, questions about workshops and coaching please email – Dave@TheComedyBook.com
Hi Dave – I worked as a comedian for ten years, opening and featuring. Is 51 years of age too old to go back into it? – D.K.
Hey lady!!
Hey D.K. – You know what? That’s one of those questions only you – and anyone else who checks out a calendar before making a move – can answer for sure. But also “for sure” I have a few thoughts about this.
So here we go…
First of all, I consider comedy – writing and performing – to be a creative art. I’ve written that countless times in these FAQs And Answers, so no detailed explanation is needed.
It’s just the way it is.
I also believe using your creativity and being psyched (excited) about sharing your “art” with others is like a Fountain of Youth. Don’t laugh. Again, I’m serious. I’ve had too many former friends (and I mean former because I have no interest in hanging out with people like this) hit a lazy-boy chair (yeah, I know it’s La-Z-Boy, but I don’t feel like getting sued) at the age of 30 and announce they’re over the hill. They hang onto jobs they hate because it’s too much work to find another. Their free time is spent vegging and basically, watching and critiquing other people that are doing or creating other things.
They never seem to create anything except annoyance. And at least to me, they always seem to look and act a lot older than they really are. The only thing they accomplish is getting older.
Am I being too hard on these people? Maybe, but they won’t read this anyway.
With Phyllis Diller – laughing into her 90s!
And now that I’ve made my opinion perfectly clear, let me tell you about another creative artist who doesn’t look at his age as a barrier. Oh yeah, and we’re still friends…
A musician pal I hung with during my years living in NYC was deeply into heavy metal rock music. We’re talking Led Zeppelin, KISS and Guns & Roses type of screaming vocals, guitars, drums and, as expected, The Look of being a rock star. He didn’t make it as a teenager, or even into his twenties or thirties. But you know what?
He’s now in his 60s and rockin’ out harder than ever.
He has a real job to support his creative endeavors, but instead of investing his salary into buying a more comfortable chair and big screen TV experience, he built a recording studio in his basement. He’s continually writing (creating) and recording (performing). It’s his creative outlet and passion, but also more than just a hobby similar to playing in a local band on the weekends.
It’s a business.
About once a year he has enough material to release a CD of hard rock originals on his own independent label (same as self-publishing your book). Through the internet and YouTube, he’s developed a fan base in Germany and some Eastern European countries that the more youthful independent (and inexperienced) bands haven’t even discovered yet. It keeps him off the couch and more importantly, from wondering:
“What if…?”
Kick off a laugh-filled 2025!!
Comedy Workshop at The Cleveland Funny Bone
Saturdays, January 4, 11 and 18 from noon to 4 pm
Perform at The Funny Bone – Thursday, January 23 at 7:30 pm
Space is limited – for details and to register visit COMEDY WORKSHOP
So, how would you answer that question ten years from now? You might think 51 is old – but it’s not as old as you’ll be tomorrow, next week or next year. If you have a creative passion and want to give comedy a shot, there’s no better time than now.
And yeah, I know. That sounds like such an overused, tired and old cliché. But it wouldn’t be overused, tired and old if it didn’t make sense.
I won’t even get into stories of creative artists making it in their careers until they were older (Google Grandma Moses if you really need an example). I’ve heard Rodney Dangerfield sold paint until he was 40. Not sure how true that is (anyone want to throw me some facts?) but I tend to believe it.
There are different ways you can get back into the comedy game at a more advanced age. You need to consider your material and audience. But then again, that’s what just about every comic needs to do anyway.
For instance, you have a better chance of winning the Lottery than making a comedy career on the college circuit. Through my experience as a college agent I know that’s true. And as father to a couple college graduates, I know for a fact there’s nothing easier for them to tune-out than an old person (think over thirty) trying to make them laugh.
I remember interviewing Bill Engvall for my book Comedy FAQs And Answers and mentioning that I thought he’d get a lot of work in the college market. He told me I was nuts. He said his material was about being married and raising a family, which ain’t exactly what college audiences relate to.
I’m only surprised he didn’t hand me the invisible, “Here’s your sign!” He was sooo right…
But as you know, I also talk about the potential for work in more mature (think again over 30) markets, which means pretty much anything other than college and high school prom shows. Your open-mic circuit can include Rotary Clubs as well as comedy clubs. It’s a matter of writing material your potential audience will relate to and laugh at – and then finding the best venues to deliver it to them.
It’s also about telling yourself you’re not too old to do something you really want to do.
So, for another inspiring example to get you off the lazy-boy and onto the stage…
The age range in my comedy workshops has been pretty wide. We used to go as young as 13 (it’s now 18) and as old as… well, there’s no limit. The record so far is 84 years young. And you know what?
He ended up working a lot more than some of the much younger members.
This late-starting comedian knew what he was interested in talking about and what potential audience would be interested in hearing it. His material was about being 84 and some of the things he – and others near his age – was doing and dealing with. He was fun, funny, active and creative. And believe it or not, he started working almost immediately because he was an original rarity.
An older adult doing comedy.
He booked MC spots in good clubs but made a financial killing playing events for senior citizens. I kid you not! Last time we talked – and this was a few years ago – he was a working comic and bouncing around like a guy half his age.
Okay, maybe except for the ones half his age that are stuck in comfortable chairs and critiquing him for being “too old” to do that sort of thing…
So, are you too old at age 51?
It’s up to you, but I don’t know if that reason alone could truly hold a creative artist back from at least giving it a shot. As far as I’m concerned, it beats the heck out of vegging in a chair and watching someone else go for it on your large screen TV…
Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!
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For comments, questions about workshops and coaching please email – Dave@TheComedyBook.com
Dave – I’ve taken your comedy workshop, and it was a wonderful experience. Okay, now that I’ve saved you the time of promoting it, I did have a question. You recently wrote about using humor to gain corporate gigs. How does one go about finding these speaking opportunities? Who do you contact – event planners, Human Resources or some other person at the corporate office? What is a gatekeeper and how should one approach that gatekeeper? – B.T.
No one gets past me!
Hey B.T. – Come on… You know me. Just because you plugged my workshop (thank you btw) doesn’t mean I’m not going to plug it again. It’s called promoting, which is what you also need to do if you want to book corporate gigs.
That’s true whether you’re a comedian, humorous speaker, or any type of presenter or entertainer. No one will hire you unless they know you’re out there and available for work.
The article you’re referring to was about using humor during your program at corporate events. It was posted in two parts in case anyone wants to scroll down for a reminder. But your question has given it a different spin:
How would you use humor to find and schedule corporate gigs? Here’s my take on it…
I go through phases but guess I could admit to being a big cold caller. It sounds miserable (think telemarketer) and was at first. I dreaded those work-related calls. But after much practice and bad experiences, I came up with an idea to make these calls semi-humorous. After all, in my corporate programs I talk about comedy, humor, laughter – and it was time to start using them.
You really want to get past me?
In the corporate market you really can’t be a one-liner, class clown or jokester when first contacting a gatekeeper (we’ll get to that term in a moment) by phone. You’ll either get the Rodney Dangerfield treatment (no respect) or be treated to an endless symphony of Elevator Muzak (for a sample, check out this LINK) when they put your call on hold and go out for lunch.
It’s a business call and you need to treat it that way. BUT it’s important to have an opening line that grabs interest. It’s like writing the beginning of a comedy bit or speaker’s presentation. You want to grab your listener’s attention as soon as possible. And since you also work in the humor industry, there’s no reason why you can’t use a fun(ny) opening line as a conversation starter.
Here’s an example that I’ve used, and it’s worked – no BS:
“Hello, this is (your name) and I’m calling from “beautiful” or “hot and humid” or “snowy and cold” (name the city closest to you that you know they’ve heard of).”
THEN WAIT.
More times than not, the person answering the phone will have a comment about the city. They’ve been there; have relatives or friends living there; know something about it (good or bad – doesn’t matter); or will have at least heard of it.
BINGO!!! Conversation starter.
Let them talk and all you have to do is work off of what they’ve just given you. Get it?
To continue this random example, they might go with the “weather option” you gave in your opening line or want to talk about the city’s sports teams (I get that one a lot). Then once we have (hopefully) a friendly and/or funny conversation going I ease into my sales pitch.
“I have a program that would be great for your company’s next event. Let me tell you about it…”
And here’s another secret. If my opener is greeted by silence or a negative reaction, I don’t waste a lot of time on the call. Since I deal with humor, this is obviously not a good fit for what I do. I’ll move onto the next one.
How do you find speaking opportunities?
Cold calling is just one way – and usually everyone’s least favorite. The best is always in person networking. I talk about this in much more detail in my book How To Be A Working Corporate Comedian, but in a nutshell, every community has business organizations looking for presenters. Play detective and find the person that schedules these meetings and volunteer to speak for FREE.
This is a major source for contacts. Not only can you showcase in front of potential clients, but they’ll also usually feed you for FREE. Then you do a meet and greet as they leave the program and liberally hand out your business cards while trying to collect as many as you can. Some audience members might have an event coming up and would be interested in hiring you based on your FREE showcase presentation.
I’ve booked quite a few paying gigs this way and gained a few pounds at the same time.
As far as who you should contact…
You’ll need to play detective again to find out that info for individual corporate events. I’ve learned firsthand it can be just about anyone from an assistant to the head honcho of the company. Go online and learn what you can about the company before calling. You can also ask the gatekeeper…
Who??
The gatekeeper is the person that answers the phone during your cold calls and considers it to be his or her personal mission to keep you from talking to the decision maker. And in case you need a refresher, the decision maker is the person that can hire you. You need to convince the gatekeeper that you and (especially) your comedy act or speaking presentation is worthy of personal contact with the decision maker.
Sometimes the above-mentioned creative (humorous) example can be the needed cold call icebreaker. Other times it turns into a longer process. This would involve sending information and promotional videos showing what you can offer to make their event successful – and hope the decision maker sees it. Then you need to follow-up without being a pain in the you-know-what.
How do you do that? It’s in my book How To Be A Working Corporate Comedian (another plug!) and involves a timely use of phone calls, emails and postcards. There are no guarantees, but gatekeepers, event planners, human resources, assistants and head honchos will never know you’re even out there and available unless you present yourself.
It’s called promoting. And in my opinion, an element of humor can help you stand out from the competition.
Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!
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For comments, questions about workshops and coaching please email – Dave@TheComedyBook.com
Hi, Dave – I hope things are going well. I have a friend teaches a class at a nearby university. He put me in contact with the director of the department and we set up a date for me to do a 45–60-minute comedy show. I asked if the school had a budget for this type of entertainment. She emailed a reply that their events are “a bit below market value” and asked me to share “ballpark numbers” with her. She added “sincere gratitude for my time and travel and what amount might be meaningful” for me.
I know I probably should’ve looked for an agent before getting a gig like this, but I’ll take this opportunity in any way I can. I just don’t exactly know what the ballpark is, I don’t want to go too high or low, I was wondering if you can point me in the right direction. This is exciting and somewhat surreal that this is finally happening. Thanks – R.
Varsity Sport
Hey R. – Good to hear from you. Things are going well (thank you) and it also sounds like things are going well for you.
The college market for performers can be very lucrative. Student Activities Departments receive funding from enrollment tuitions that needs to be spent while the students paying it are still in school. Think about that. If part of your money is going toward entertainment, but they don’t provide the entertainment while you’re there, you’re not going to be very happy about it.
So, they spend because they need to.
Now, that’s not saying colleges and universities have unlimited budgets, but in my experiences as a college agent (for almost eight years) they have more to spend than an average comedy club.
But it’s not an easy market to break into. Your comedy material needs to be relatable to college-aged students. For example, unless the comic is a celebrity, the audience is not going to be very interested in someone’s “mom or dad” telling jokes that doesn’t fit their interests.
A good example of this was given to me during an interview with Bill Engvall for my book, Comedy FAQs And Answers: How The Stand-Up Biz Really Works. We were actually talking about how to protect your material – he has a trademark on his brilliant hook, “Here’s your sign” (it’s in the book). I happened to mention he must be popular on the college circuit because that’s such a funny bit. But he disagreed. He said his comedy is mostly about family, being married, having kids and being an adult. Students – much younger than both of us – had no interest in that. They couldn’t relate, so he stayed away from doing colleges.
Okay, that makes sense.
So, many (newer) comedians looking to break into the college market might assume they need topics the students can really relate to. Probably sleeping through classes, getting drunk, getting high, having sex, and all the really fun reasons for anyone to go to college.
Okay, that also makes sense – but not how you will get bookings.
Says it all…
Student Activities boards make the decisions about entertainment on campuses. Many of the comedy shows happen during special events – such as Parent’s Weekend, Little Sibs Weekends, Homecoming, Alumni Weekends and… well, you get the idea. The decision makers do not want parents (who might be paying the tuition) and others to think all their student do is party, sleep and repeat. So, they are very selective about the material comedians perform during their shows.
Okay, that’s just a general overview. If you think you have an act that will work in the college market, let’s move on to today’s question. Let’s say you’ve used a connection to book your first college gig. But word of warning: the answer will be practical and vague at the same time.
First of all, it could be the beginning of something good. If you’ve scored your first college gig, don’t worry about having an agent do the deal for you. Not yet and not under these circumstances. You made the connection and can play it through yourself without having to share a percentage.
Second of all – a good (reliable) college agent would be tough for you to find right now – simply because you haven’t had experience doing college gigs yet.
It’s a problem a lot of comedians working in the college market have had to deal with at the beginning of their careers. I’ve heard about it often. Comedians have told me they can’t get “good” (well paying) college gigs without an agent. However, they can’t get an agent without having experience doing college gigs.
It’s what they call “Catch-22” (look it up if you need to).
You’re already on a good path by scoring this college gig on your own. What you really want out of this most – more than big bucks – is the resume credit, a recommendation from student activities or someone at the college associated with the gig. Just a simple “great job”, “love working with you”, “very professional”, “students loved the show” – whatever you can get that is positive.
This can be obtained by sending a “thank you” email after the gig – and asking for any feedback. You would use their positive statement or review as promotion to book more college shows. Positive college reviews are also a good way to get college agents interested in working with you.
Most important – you will need a video of your set filmed in front of a college audience. Sometimes the schools will do this for you. They might have a film department that will look at this as a project. As a college agent, I’ve arranged that for some of the acts I represented. It never hurts to ask.
But if that doesn’t happen, then do it yourself. This is a good opportunity to show college agents and other schools how you perform for students. You might need to bring a friend to help with this. Have a camera or phone aimed at you on stage – and another filming the audience. Now, I know some schools will not allow you to film students, but even set up in the back of the room or off to the side will allow you to film their reactions without showing their faces. Why is this important? I’ll tell you from experience…
Potential talent bookers and agents like to see you and your audience’s reaction. Watch some of the television comedy specials – or even older ones like A&E’s An Evening at the Improv.” Comics will do a bit and then there’s a quick cut to the audience laughing. It’s how the “professionals” do it and shows the viewer how much the audience enjoys your show.
I’ve coached comics in the past to do a free show on campus – just to have that video for potential college agents. But if you already have a gig on campus, you’re past that “free” show stage. Just make sure you get a good video. It should pay off in the future.
Okay, now for the “vague” part…
As mentioned earlier, colleges and universities have money to spend on entertainment through Student Activities. In my past experiences they pay a lot more than regular gigs in comedy clubs (with a note that headliners are different). But until you reach that status as a performer and have no college performing experience, the main goal is to get the resume credit and video.
When I was just breaking into the college market as an agent, I thought it would be a brilliant business technique to go for less money than what other (more established) agents were asking when booking newer comedians. But it didn’t work out as planned. My other agent-friends told me the students activities representatives would think my clients weren’t as good (funny) because they were cheaper. The idea was that a higher price meant they would give a better show.
Really…?
Okay – so I went with that idea. I learned that most of the newer comedians were asking for – and getting – $1,000 for an hour show. There was also a lot of negotiating and block bookings to give schools better deals and in the process, the comedians more money – but that’s also in the book Comedy FAQs and Answers. Yeah, I know… cheap plug.
But remember at this stage of your beginning college market career, it’s more important to get the credit, a recommendation, and a video.
Since today’s question asked about the “going rate” for a college performance, you might need to do a little research. If you know from being part of your “comedy scene” anyone that does college shows, ask for their advice. Otherwise, pick a figure that works for you. It could be $500 or $100 for a 45-60-minute show. Mention to the booker that’s what “your friend” suggested and then throw the ball back onto their court. Ask if that fits into their budget.
Then wait for an answer. See what they offer.
In my opinion – and only if this is local and doesn’t involve hours or days traveling – I would take it. BUT AGAIN, I say this only for newer comedians looking to break into the college market. The most valuable payment is leaving with a college performance credit, a recommendation, and a good video that can help you work with a college agency or to book other college gigs on your own.
Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!
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For comments, questions about workshops and coaching please email – Dave@TheComedyBook.com
“I just completed a comedy workshop and also, I’m reading your book How To Be A Working Comic. I would also like to learn about humorous presentations and keynote opportunities.” – Sincerely, EM
Info-tainment
Okay, if you’re following along that’s the same question from our last newsletter. You’ll also remember the answer was getting a bit long and the executive decision (mine) was made to break it up into two parts. If you’d like to check out Part 1 just scroll down, check out the last newsletter – or subscribe so you don’t miss any of this good stuff.
To continue from where we left off…
Now, before you shake your head and think I’m nuts because there’s “no way” you could ever relate to corporate event themes, here’s a news update:
Chances are you can.
I say that because I’ve worked with and watched dozens of talented local and national comedians turn themselves into corporate comedians or humorists by taking their comedy material and focusing it on the audience and the event.
They’ve done this through simple research. Usually by emailing a short survey to the event planner or a phone interview with the client. They find out the “theme” for the event, the company’s product and the focus of the conference training seminars. Then they can take this information and see how his/her existing comedy material relates.
Stop shaking your head because I’m not done yet. For example…
If you have a family, you’re probably an “expert” on communications, team building and customer service. Yeah, it may sound ridiculous because it might only be about communicating with your parents, spouse, kids or other relatives. But since these are important topics within the “business world” and focused on during the conference, your performance would be “entertainment” that is based on the “theme.”
The topics are the same.
Keep them entertained!
You’re just relating to them in a different way as a humorist. Put focus on the conference theme (ex: the importance of communicating) and how you deal with it on a personal level (ex: “I don’t understand how my family communicates”) and it becomes info-tainment.
Are you still shaking your head? I’ll continue…
A couple years ago I did a breakout session at a medical conference. And here’s a confession (and to quote a favorite comedian, Dom Irrera) – “I’m no doctor…”, but one of the conference topics was stress relief. I’m a comedy coach and talk about humor. One of the benefits of humor is relieving stress. I was the only person in the room without a medical degree, white coat and stethoscope – and probably the only one that got paid for that particular hour. I made sure my topic – finding humor in stressful situations – related to their event.
My topic, or expertise, was a good example of what the doctors were talking about in their training seminars (info) and we had more than a few laughs (entertainment).
The event planner may have hired a big-time keynote speaker or high-priced entertainer for a highlight event during the conference, but to make it a highlight they would probably need big-time doctor credentials (keynote) or television credits (entertainer). If you can compete for those gigs, then go for it. Otherwise, start thinking about how your comedy expertise can get you booked for one of the many other (paying) speaker opportunities.
Monday sessions start September 30, 2024 – space is limited.
A stand-up comedian who doesn’t customize his material for the event can still get hired as the entertainment. A humorous speaker can be hired for keynotes, training seminars, break out sessions – and as the entertainment.
What this means is that you don’t need to work laughs into a strict business training program about… well, corporate stuff such as taxes, law, productivity, networking, increasing sales and all that. If you have experience in those fields and can speak as a “trainer” with humor, you should be in demand. But even if you don’t, you might have comedy material that is relatable to those topics. So, find a creative way to relate what you already talk about to the audience and the event.
This is another way of saying know your audience.
The topic of the conference could be anything from business techniques such as learning power point or relieving office stress, to more personal topics like juggling a family and a career, to improving your golf game.
Were you ever a parent, child, golfer, lawyer, teacher, minister, truck driver, bartender or anything other than a comedian? Then you have a business or personal topic you can share. Talk about your business or personal experiences (I’ll bet you already do in your act) while making it funny and entertaining, and you’ll be considered a humorous speaker.
For example…
I’m sure a comedian with teaching experience would have some very funny stories and advice to share if team building was a corporate breakout session topic. So would soccer moms and dads, military vets, sports fans, frat boys, factory workers, gang members – and anyone else that has ever been part of a team.
This also works if you have a particular message.
Have you or anyone close to you survived a disease, injury or other tragedy? I hate to list those suggestions as moneymakers, but I’ve seen many comedians on the corporate and college circuits turning negatives into positives as humorous motivational speakers. If your story can help someone else – then it’s worthy of telling. And if you can make it entertaining, your audience will tend to listen and “get” your message. The same idea holds true for insights on bullying, alcohol awareness and other important topics. Do you have experience in these fields? Talk, share, motivate, teach, train and entertain as a comedian.
That’s what sells in the corporate market.
The idea is not to be limited to only going for the corporate entertainment gigs that seem to peak during holidays and slow down the rest of the year. If your material and performance is relatable to the event and funny, you’ll find more opportunities for work.
I’ll talk more about this topic in the coming weeks because I have a lot to share. But here’s another big chunk of advice that I’ve shared numerous times in earlier newsletters.
Keep it clean!
For corporate shows, we’re talking G and PG (at the max) rated. Don’t even try to test that warning in an attempt to prove me wrong. You won’t – and you also won’t work corporate gigs where you can make more money in an hour than you can during an entire weekend at a comedy club.
And if you remember how we started in Part 1 of this discussion, that’s a correct answer to a big-money topic. And now for my brilliant callback…
I guess I should’ve been a game show host.
Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!
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For comments, questions about workshops and coaching please email – Dave@TheComedyBook.com
Sometimes the above-mentioned creative (humorous) example can be the needed cold call icebreaker. Other times it turns into a longer process. This would involve sending information and promotional videos showing what you can offer to make their event successful – and hope the decision maker sees it. Then you need to follow-up without being a pain in the you-know-what.
