Category Archives: money

Back of the room sales at corporate events

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Hi Dave – Your recent discussions about corporate comedy and speaking raises a question about back-of-room (BOR) sales. Merchandise sales are common in comedy shows and speaking engagements open to the public. But what about corporate gigs where the company is paying you? Is that something most companies accept, or is it generally frowned upon? At the very least, I would think we should focus very little on our products during the presentation itself (30 seconds max). How do you handle this? Thanks! DG

At the back of the room!

Hey DG – Like just about everything else in the speaking and comedy biz, it depends.

BOR sales of merchandise is so common today that I’m always surprised when the speaker – or comedy headliner AND feature act AND opening act – isn’t camped behind a table full of merch (show-biz slang) and selling everything that isn’t nailed down after the show.

It’s a big source of income. In fact, it’s not even looked at anymore as extra income. In some cases, BOR sales can add up to more money than what the comic or speaker is being paid by the talent booker just to do the gig.

For a big-time, big money example…

A few years ago, I was talking to a comedian friend (who will remain nameless because I’ll drop dollar amounts in this story, but as a hint she is in my book Comedy FAQs And Answers). She was in a panic going from a show in Florida to another in Cleveland because she had completely sold-out all her BOR merch. She needed her agent to send a shipment over-night so her money-making DVDs, CDs, T-Shirts, photos (to autograph for $$’s) and books would be available for fans to purchase after her Cleveland show.

Have I got a deal for you!

If I remember correctly, she was paid about 10 grand for the performance itself. What I do remember correctly is that she told me she made 22 grand selling merchandise after the Florida show!

Yeah, I’d be in a panic too.

Comics and speakers sell all kinds of stuff. Audience members can look at these items as souvenirs of a fun night and also a chance to get an autographed copy of something. And just in case the performer becomes famous the fan can make some money selling it on eBay. But that’s a totally different business proposition…

But you’re definitely correct it’s different when playing a corporate-paid gig. It can be done – and is quite often – but in my opinion, you need permission in advance from the person signing your check.

You don’t ever want to surprise a corporate client or event planner by setting up your mini store at an important training seminar or formal banquet without an agreement made in advance. In fact, I recommend you get the permission in writing and that it’s included in your signed contract. I use a contract rider that includes everything from BOR sales to the exact wording of my introduction and what type of microphone I prefer.

So even if they don’t remember giving you permission for BOR sales and ask you to start putting all your merch back into the trunk of your car, you’ll have proof of the prior agreement.

So how do I handle all this? Thank you for asking. As usual, it depends…

I do two separate corporate programs. One is based on my comedy workshops and communications course I designed for Cleveland State University. It has a 60-page workbook, but it’s not for BOR sales and I don’t pitch it during my program. The client has an option to purchase copies in advance for audience giveaways. If it’s a half or full day training seminar, it’s added into my fee so everyone in attendance will have one because we’ll use it during the program. Either way I’ll know how many are needed and can have them printed up in advance.

So, I won’t even make a 30 second pitch for BOR sales during this particular corporate-paid program. I’ll stay afterwards to talk and trade business cards because as you should already know, it’s all about networking. You never know who’s in the audience that might want to hire you for a future gig.

And when that happens, ask them in advance about BOR sales!

My second program is not for training purposes, but as entertainment. Since this is what comedians do in clubs, pay attention…

This is a pop culture program based on my books The Beatles At Shea Stadium and The Beatles In Cleveland. For this one it’s already in the contract that I do BOR sales. Like I mentioned above – and how most comedians and other entertainers should look at it – I consider this as part of my payment for doing the gig. It also helps in negotiating since BOR sales will allow me to come in for a lower fee than a no BOR sales training seminar. Book sales make up the difference.

Then again, that’s what I do and I’m only spelling it out because you asked. I’m in no-way a know-it-all about this and I’m sure there are working comics and speakers reading who will have more thoughts and personal experiences about this topic.

Care to share? We’d love to hear from you.

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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Record for your own protection

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Hi Dave – I was talking with another comic about a court case from a few years ago. A customer in a comedy club sued the comic over his (adult) language. She claimed to be stressed and shocked and won the case. We record every set mainly so we can hear which jokes work and how well. Now it’s important to document what was actually said. This was a case of a comic being accused of using inappropriate language in a mandatory “clean” show. – BM

Disorder in the court!

Hey BM – I remember that case and wrote about it in a FAQs article when the verdict came down. A lot of people in the comedy biz were shocked over what happened. To borrow a phrase from an influential club booker who seems to repeat it every time we talk, comedy clubs are “The Last Bastion of Free Speech.” In other words, he feels as long as the comedian is funny it’s okay to have an opinion to say what he or she wants on stage and not worry about being politically correct.

But it’s not that simple.

It didn’t take a court case for most working comics to understand there are limits on language and topics depending on the venue, audience and event. For example, what you can expect to hear during a late night show in a comedy club vs. a corporate event will be different.

As you mentioned, it’s important to record all your sets. This is a great way to help you improve as a writer and performer. If your performance is funny the audience will laugh. If it sucks, you’ll hear crickets from the segments of the room where your family and friends are not sitting. You can develop your act off the response.

Proof is on the recording

As you also mentioned, recording your set is a way to “document” what is said on stage. Based on the result of the court case, having proof of what you said can be just as important.

Some performers may not realize this, but did you know that some club owners or managers record the shows? It’s nothing new. Many clubs have a permanent camera installed and aimed toward the stage. Before that in “ancient times” (pre video cameras) quite a few had an audio recorder going.

I know. I’ve been around since the “ancient times” and saw this happening.

I’ve also seen this documentation (proof) used to show performers that what they advertised (promised) was not what they delivered. And in some cases, it justified the talent booker not paying the performer.

Example…

A few years ago I received a call from a booker to warn me about a certain comedian who was promoting himself as a clean (G-rated) act. He had scheduled the comic for a corporate show and was called-out by the client because the comic not only talked graphically about sex, but also dropped the F-bomb in the process.

Of course the comic protested. He said his material was not that dirty.

So the talent booker told him to prove it. Send the audio or video. The comic couldn’t because he didn’t record. So it came down to the client’s word vs. the comic’s word.

Can you guess who won?

Yeah, the angry and offended client with big corporate $$’s to spend on his next event.

The booker still hoped some of that money would be spent on one of his performers, so case closed. The client demanded and received a refund, so neither the talent booker or the comic was paid. And since the talent booker wasn’t used to getting yelled at by clients because the performers he works with are expected to understand the event and “know the audience,” he called other talent bookers to warn them of the potential nightmare that comes from working with that particular comic.

That’s how I heard about it.

So now getting back to the article you mentioned, I’m guessing the judge made a ruling based on whose lawyer sounded most convincing. I don’t remember reading about the comedian recording his set. If he had, it might (or might not) have saved him time, trouble, money and future work. It’s important for creative artists to have freedom of expression, but I’ll also add this from a business side of the creative entertainment business:

There are certain limits.

What do I mean by that stipulation?

A comedy club normally is for people ages 21 and over. If someone fits that demographic but is easily offended, then they need to follow the rule of “buyer beware.” If the show is announced for “mature audiences only” you can bet the comic on stage will practice his or her right of free speech at some point or another. If someone doesn’t like it – they should leave.

It’s similar to watching television. If I don’t like a show I’ll change the channel. But I won’t impose my beliefs on someone else who might enjoy it. As an example I’ll use all the violent murder and detective shows that I have no desire to watch. But they pull in high ratings, so who am I to prevent others from tuning in? Instead, I’ll just change the channel to The Voice or a rerun of Seinfeld. Those are the types of shows I enjoy watching.

But performers also need to be aware of the event and audience.

As mentioned above, a late night comedy club show will be different than a corporate event. Comedy clubs are where comedians can practice free speech, while corporate comics need to be funny using G-rated material.

To prove (document) my point, here’s an experience with someone that “did not know his audience” that I still find unforgettable and unforgivable…

Many years ago I took our then 5 year-old son to a very well known amusement park. It wasn’t Disney because they have standards about this stuff. But as we walked around all these rides and games meant for little kids, I saw a guy wearing a white t-shirt with the F-Bomb spelled out in all it’s four-letter glory in BIG bold black lettering as in “F(bomb) YOU!”

Sorry “Mr. Living-On-The-Edge”, but that was not the time or place for your political incorrectness. Performers who work in the comedy and speaking biz will understand. It’s called “knowing your audience “and the audience this idiot had was a bunch of 5-year-old kids with their parents.

This goes both ways.

Performers must know your audience. Audiences must realize where they are. If it’s a corporate show it’ll be clean. If it’s a comedy club, chances are something will be said that’s not appropriate for 5 year old kids or anyone easily offended.

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When you cross the line, that’s when the trouble – and bad-mouthing phone calls – can start. Your best defense is to always record your set and be sure it backs up what you’ve been hired to do.

Oh, and by the way – I reported the idiot wearing the “F-Bomb” t-shirt to administrators at the amusement park. I don’t know if they told him to change or to leave, but I hope they at least made part of his day a hassle. LOL!!!

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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Breaking Into the College Market

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Hi, Dave – I hope things are going well. I have a friend teaches a class at a nearby university. He put me in contact with the director of the department and we set up a date for me to do a 45–60-minute comedy show. I asked if the school had a budget for this type of entertainment. She emailed a reply that their events are “a bit below market value” and asked me to share “ballpark numbers” with her. She added “sincere gratitude for my time and travel and what amount might be meaningful” for me.

I know I probably should’ve looked for an agent before getting a gig like this, but I’ll take this opportunity in any way I can. I just don’t exactly know what the ballpark is, I don’t want to go too high or low, I was wondering if you can point me in the right direction. This is exciting and somewhat surreal that this is finally happening. Thanks – R.

Varsity Sport

Hey R. – Good to hear from you. Things are going well (thank you) and it also sounds like things are going well for you.

The college market for performers can be very lucrative. Student Activities Departments receive funding from enrollment tuitions that needs to be spent while the students paying it are still in school. Think about that. If part of your money is going toward entertainment, but they don’t provide the entertainment while you’re there, you’re not going to be very happy about it.

So, they spend because they need to.

Now, that’s not saying colleges and universities have unlimited budgets, but in my experiences as a college agent (for almost eight years) they have more to spend than an average comedy club.

But it’s not an easy market to break into. Your comedy material needs to be relatable to college-aged students. For example, unless the comic is a celebrity, the audience is not going to be very interested in someone’s “mom or dad” telling jokes that doesn’t fit their interests.

A good example of this was given to me during an interview with Bill Engvall for my book, Comedy FAQs And Answers: How The Stand-Up Biz Really Works. We were actually talking about how to protect your material – he has a trademark on his brilliant hook, “Here’s your sign” (it’s in the book). I happened to mention he must be popular on the college circuit because that’s such a funny bit. But he disagreed. He said his comedy is mostly about family, being married, having kids and being an adult. Students – much younger than both of us – had no interest in that. They couldn’t relate, so he stayed away from doing colleges.

Okay, that makes sense.

So, many (newer) comedians looking to break into the college market might assume they need topics the students can really relate to. Probably sleeping through classes, getting drunk, getting high, having sex, and all the really fun reasons for anyone to go to college.

Okay, that also makes sense – but not how you will get bookings.

Says it all…

Student Activities boards make the decisions about entertainment on campuses. Many of the comedy shows happen during special events – such as Parent’s Weekend, Little Sibs Weekends, Homecoming, Alumni Weekends and… well, you get the idea. The decision makers do not want parents (who might be paying the tuition) and others to think all their student do is party, sleep and repeat. So, they are very selective about the material comedians perform during their shows.

Okay, that’s just a general overview. If you think you have an act that will work in the college market, let’s move on to today’s question. Let’s say you’ve used a connection to book your first college gig. But word of warning: the answer will be practical and vague at the same time.

First of all, it could be the beginning of something good. If you’ve scored your first college gig, don’t worry about having an agent do the deal for you. Not yet and not under these circumstances. You made the connection and can play it through yourself without having to share a percentage.

Second of all – a good (reliable) college agent would be tough for you to find right now – simply because you haven’t had experience doing college gigs yet.

It’s a problem a lot of comedians working in the college market have had to deal with at the beginning of their careers. I’ve heard about it often. Comedians have told me they can’t get “good” (well paying) college gigs without an agent. However, they can’t get an agent without having experience doing college gigs.

It’s what they call “Catch-22” (look it up if you need to).

You’re already on a good path by scoring this college gig on your own. What you really want out of this most – more than big bucks – is the resume credit, a recommendation from student activities or someone at the college associated with the gig. Just a simple “great job”, “love working with you”, “very professional”, “students loved the show” – whatever you can get that is positive.

This can be obtained by sending a “thank you” email after the gig – and asking for any feedback. You would use their positive statement or review as promotion to book more college shows. Positive college reviews are also a good way to get college agents interested in working with you.

Most important – you will need a video of your set filmed in front of a college audience. Sometimes the schools will do this for you. They might have a film department that will look at this as a project. As a college agent, I’ve arranged that for some of the acts I represented. It never hurts to ask.

But if that doesn’t happen, then do it yourself. This is a good opportunity to show college agents and other schools how you perform for students. You might need to bring a friend to help with this. Have a camera or phone aimed at you on stage – and another filming the audience. Now, I know some schools will not allow you to film students, but even set up in the back of the room or off to the side will allow you to film their reactions without showing their faces. Why is this important? I’ll tell you from experience…

Potential talent bookers and agents like to see you and your audience’s reaction. Watch some of the television comedy specials – or even older ones like A&E’s An Evening at the Improv.” Comics will do a bit and then there’s a quick cut to the audience laughing. It’s how the “professionals” do it and shows the viewer how much the audience enjoys your show.

I’ve coached comics in the past to do a free show on campus – just to have that video for potential college agents. But if you already have a gig on campus, you’re past that “free” show stage. Just make sure you get a good video. It should pay off in the future.

Okay, now for the “vague” part…

As mentioned earlier, colleges and universities have money to spend on entertainment through Student Activities. In my past experiences they pay a lot more than regular gigs in comedy clubs (with a note that headliners are different). But until you reach that status as a performer and have no college performing experience, the main goal is to get the resume credit and video.

When I was just breaking into the college market as an agent, I thought it would be a brilliant business technique to go for less money than what other (more established) agents were asking when booking newer comedians. But it didn’t work out as planned. My other agent-friends told me the students activities representatives would think my clients weren’t as good (funny) because they were cheaper. The idea was that a higher price meant they would give a better show.

Really…?

Okay – so I went with that idea. I learned that most of the newer comedians were asking for – and getting – $1,000 for an hour show. There was also a lot of negotiating and block bookings to give schools better deals and in the process, the comedians more money – but that’s also in the book Comedy FAQs and Answers. Yeah, I know… cheap plug.

But remember at this stage of your beginning college market career, it’s more important to get the credit, a recommendation, and a video.

Since today’s question asked about the “going rate” for a college performance, you might need to do a little research. If you know from being part of your “comedy scene” anyone that does college shows, ask for their advice. Otherwise, pick a figure that works for you. It could be $500 or $100 for a 45-60-minute show. Mention to the booker that’s what “your friend” suggested and then throw the ball back onto their court. Ask if that fits into their budget.

Then wait for an answer. See what they offer.

In my opinion – and only if this is local and doesn’t involve hours or days traveling – I would take it. BUT AGAIN, I say this only for newer comedians looking to break into the college market. The most valuable payment is leaving with a college performance credit, a recommendation, and a good video that can help you work with a college agency or to book other college gigs on your own.

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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Use humor to get corporate gigs Part 2

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“I just completed a comedy workshop and also, I’m reading your book How To Be A Working Comic. I would also like to learn about humorous presentations and keynote opportunities.” – Sincerely, EM

Info-tainment

Okay, if you’re following along that’s the same question from our last newsletter. You’ll also remember the answer was getting a bit long and the executive decision (mine) was made to break it up into two parts. If you’d like to check out Part 1 just scroll down, check out the last newsletter – or subscribe so you don’t miss any of this good stuff.

To continue from where we left off…

Now, before you shake your head and think I’m nuts because there’s “no way” you could ever relate to corporate event themes, here’s a news update:

Chances are you can.

I say that because I’ve worked with and watched dozens of talented local and national comedians turn themselves into corporate comedians or humorists by taking their comedy material and focusing it on the audience and the event.

They’ve done this through simple research. Usually by emailing a short survey to the event planner or a phone interview with the client. They find out the “theme” for the event, the company’s product and the focus of the conference training seminars. Then they can take this information and see how his/her existing comedy material relates.

Stop shaking your head because I’m not done yet. For example…

If you have a family, you’re probably an “expert” on communications, team building and customer service. Yeah, it may sound ridiculous because it might only be about communicating with your parents, spouse, kids or other relatives. But since these are important topics within the “business world” and focused on during the conference, your performance would be “entertainment” that is based on the “theme.”

The topics are the same.

Keep them entertained!

You’re just relating to them in a different way as a humorist. Put focus on the conference theme (ex: the importance of communicating) and how you deal with it on a personal level (ex: “I don’t understand how my family communicates”) and it becomes info-tainment.

Are you still shaking your head? I’ll continue…

A couple years ago I did a breakout session at a medical conference. And here’s a confession (and to quote a favorite comedian, Dom Irrera) – “I’m no doctor…”, but one of the conference topics was stress relief. I’m a comedy coach and talk about humor. One of the benefits of humor is relieving stress. I was the only person in the room without a medical degree, white coat and stethoscope – and probably the only one that got paid for that particular hour. I made sure my topic – finding humor in stressful situations – related to their event.

My topic, or expertise, was a good example of what the doctors were talking about in their training seminars (info) and we had more than a few laughs (entertainment).

The event planner may have hired a big-time keynote speaker or high-priced entertainer for a highlight event during the conference, but to make it a highlight they would probably need big-time doctor credentials (keynote) or television credits (entertainer). If you can compete for those gigs, then go for it. Otherwise, start thinking about how your comedy expertise can get you booked for one of the many other (paying) speaker opportunities.

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A stand-up comedian who doesn’t customize his material for the event can still get hired as the entertainment. A humorous speaker can be hired for keynotes, training seminars, break out sessions – and as the entertainment.

What this means is that you don’t need to work laughs into a strict business training program about… well, corporate stuff such as taxes, law, productivity, networking, increasing sales and all that. If you have experience in those fields and can speak as a “trainer” with humor, you should be in demand. But even if you don’t, you might have comedy material that is relatable to those topics. So, find a creative way to relate what you already talk about to the audience and the event.

This is another way of saying know your audience.

The topic of the conference could be anything from business techniques such as learning power point or relieving office stress, to more personal topics like juggling a family and a career, to improving your golf game.

Were you ever a parent, child, golfer, lawyer, teacher, minister, truck driver, bartender or anything other than a comedian? Then you have a business or personal topic you can share. Talk about your business or personal experiences (I’ll bet you already do in your act) while making it funny and entertaining, and you’ll be considered a humorous speaker.

For example…

I’m sure a comedian with teaching experience would have some very funny stories and advice to share if team building was a corporate breakout session topic. So would soccer moms and dads, military vets, sports fans, frat boys, factory workers, gang members – and anyone else that has ever been part of a team.

This also works if you have a particular message.

Have you or anyone close to you survived a disease, injury or other tragedy? I hate to list those suggestions as moneymakers, but I’ve seen many comedians on the corporate and college circuits turning negatives into positives as humorous motivational speakers. If your story can help someone else – then it’s worthy of telling. And if you can make it entertaining, your audience will tend to listen and “get” your message. The same idea holds true for insights on bullying, alcohol awareness and other important topics. Do you have experience in these fields? Talk, share, motivate, teach, train and entertain as a comedian.

That’s what sells in the corporate market.

The idea is not to be limited to only going for the corporate entertainment gigs that seem to peak during holidays and slow down the rest of the year. If your material and performance is relatable to the event and funny, you’ll find more opportunities for work.

I’ll talk more about this topic in the coming weeks because I have a lot to share. But here’s another big chunk of advice that I’ve shared numerous times in earlier newsletters.

Keep it clean!

For corporate shows, we’re talking G and PG (at the max) rated. Don’t even try to test that warning in an attempt to prove me wrong. You won’t – and you also won’t work corporate gigs where you can make more money in an hour than you can during an entire weekend at a comedy club.

And if you remember how we started in Part 1 of this discussion, that’s a correct answer to a big-money topic. And now for my brilliant callback…

I guess I should’ve been a game show host.

Thanks for reading – and keep laughing!

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